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Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes. Teach me about the Great Lakes. John, welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes a twice monthly podcast in which I, a Great Lakes novice as people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. My name is Stuart Carlton, I work with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. And I know a lot about the feeling where you ride your bike into work, planning to go out to dinner with a new department head, all excited about that and realize that you left your bike lock at home. So no, you have to decide whether or not to ride all the way back home before going to dinner, or to ride to target and get a cheap bike lock and spend the whole dinner warning wondering if your bike is going to be stolen or not. But I don't know a lot about the Great Lakes. And so that's the point of this podcast. I'm joined today by the one the only the special Meghan gun Meghan, what's up?

Megan Gunn 0:46
Nothing much, Stuart. I'm excited for sunshine and being back on the podcast after taking a long hiatus.

Stuart Carlton 0:53
Too long, your hiatus was too loud. We're super pumped to have you back. That is definitely true. And fired up in action. And so you know, I think today, let's just jump right into it. There was an issue, I'll give a little background and then we'll do the thing. But so there I always actually, we just had a paper that's about to come out the Journal of Great Lakes research that I was working on with a postdoc, Becca Nixon, and another colleague of mine, shell, ma and Becca lead this whole deal. But But it got accepted. And then once your paper gets accepted, what you do is you refresh the journal page every 90 to 120 seconds to see if it's up there yet. Because it's still fun to see your name in print. And so I was doing that refreshing, like mad. I've got you know, refresh old tunnel syndrome, or whatever I'm like, I don't really need paper. in the journal, this has nothing to do with what we were we were talking about the papers called drawing on Anishinabeg knowledge to protect water, it was talking about like this water protection plan being developed in the White Room whitefish River, First Nation, up in northern Ontario and Ontario. And I thought this was really neat and touches on a lot of things I want to talk to. So I reached out to the author, her name is Dr. Lorrilee McGregor, and she was kind enough to come on. So I'm really fired up about this interview.

Megan Gunn 2:04
Me too, I am so excited. Especially because I've been I've been thinking a lot, not like in the last year or so. But especially in the last couple of weeks, like how indigenous peoples survived in the environment for 1000s and 1000s of years without conflict. And so what can I do? Having grown up in this this western world? What can I do now as a single person to better interact with the environment? Yeah. Because like you have these individuals that are doing things, but us as individuals, like we make a big difference. And so that's about Yeah,

Stuart Carlton 2:42
well, you were, I think it's a great conversation, or I would think it if we had had it already, but since we're recording this beforehand, of course, I imagined it will be a great conversation. And I imagine that I'm looking looking forward to hearing it.

Our guest today is Dr. Lorrilee McGregor, she's an assistant professor of Indigenous Health at the Northern Ontario School of Medicine, which I'm happy to report is Canada's first Independent School of Medicine. Laura Lee, how are you today?

Dr. Lorrilee McGregor 3:17
I'm doing very well. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 3:19
Great. So where is that anyway? Where is Northern Ontario? So I'll be honest, I don't know a lot about Canada other than what I've learned from Carolyn. And so when I hear northern anything in Canada, I'm thinking it's in the middle of not a lot. Is that fair about the Northern Ontario School of Medicine?

Dr. Lorrilee McGregor 3:35
Well, actually, the School of Medicine is located in Sudbury, Ontario. And if you were looking at a map of Ontario, you would see that it's actually not in the northern part of the province. I would say, you know, if I was looking at a map, I would say it's kind of actually maybe in the middle of the province. But when people give names to places, it's all based on, you know, urban centric, so anything north of Toronto is North right

Stuart Carlton 4:04
yeah, I have some friends in New York State and the debate over where Upstate is Yeah, anything north of New York City is upstate New York at least according to people in New York Fair enough. Fair enough. So you're not too so it's not Verizon, like a lot of people there is a kind of

Unknown Speaker 4:17
said breeds a Greater Sudbury area the population is about 130,000. So not heavily populated. But that includes they used to be their towns on their own but everything got amalgamated. I forget when that happened in the 1990s maybe but so that's quite spread out. So Sudbury is quite spread out. But it's one of the largest urban centres in this area. I'll say you know what to say Northern Ontario but it's really not Northern Ontario, really, Northern Ontario. The folks from who are actually from Northern Ontario would be like that ain't Northern Ontario. But I'm I'm I don't actually live in Sudbury I used to live inside Bri when my daughter was going to high school there, but I actually live in my home community of whitefish river First Nation, which is about an hour and 1015 minutes from Sudbury so I don't live in I don't live in the in the city anymore. I live in the I live in the sticks on the rez?

Stuart Carlton 5:21
Do you have to go into teach them? Or is it all virtual because of COVID stuff, or how's that work?

Unknown Speaker 5:25
Um, it has been virtual for the past two years. But since February we're back in person. So but I don't teach everyday, we have just a very unique kind of teaching module that we teach in modules. And the module that I'm primarily responsible for and teach quite a bit in is coming up. It's starting in at the end of this month, so I'll be there much more frequently. And I have been, but you know, the bad weather and you know, snow days, and I see the freezing rain is kind of mostly over mostly so I don't, the travel is not too bad. It's nothing when you live when you live in rural areas, like an hour and 10 minute drive is like nothing.

Stuart Carlton 6:08
One thing I love about West Lafayette is we don't have that we have it's so we have about the same number of people were probably in the Greater Lafayette area, probably 150k, something like that. And but but I have a 14 minute bike ride in. And so it's nice, especially now I got this electric bike, which I talked about every third episode, so I'm gonna talk about Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 6:27
when I used to live in sidebar, I lived close enough to either bike or or walk to school, but that's not gonna happen. That's not gonna happen right now. No,

Stuart Carlton 6:37
I imagined it's nice to be back out in the sticks though, too. So the whitefish river First Nation? Tell me a little bit about this. This is an indigenous community in that area. Right. Is that was it? You know? Have you all been? They've been there, you know, for time immemorial? Or what's the history of them in the area?

Unknown Speaker 6:54
So I would say time immemorial. I mean, we do have our creation stories that talk about, you know, not exactly when we got to this area, but essentially, there's a phrase we would say, in our language me were me, Wally J, which is like a long time ago, people actually came from the east that's in our our creation story. But we've been in this area for 1000s of years. There's archaeological evidence for us being here, I think. 10 to 12,000 years. So yeah, so whitefish River, First Nation, it's one of seven first nations that are part of the Manitoulin First Nations, for those who are somewhat familiar with geography in Ontario. So I live very close to Manitoulin. Island. So Manitoulin Island is quite well known. In Ontario. It's one of the I think it's the largest freshwater island in the world. No kidding. Yeah. It's like to drive from one end to the other would probably take you at least three hours. Wow. hours. Mm hmm. And so there are communities that we believe were you know, we're affiliated with we there's lots of relationships through marriage and things like that among the communities. But my community of whitefish river is not technically on Manitoulin Island work, basically, where we'd be kind of like on the peninsula, or no, it's whenever some kind of geographic body form that connects the island to the mainland, and so we're surrounded. So Manitoulin Island is located within Lake Huron, Georgian Bay. And so we're connected to both on the west, the large body of water called the Bay of Islands. And to the east is MacGregor Bay, which is actually what I'm looking out into over McGregor Bay right now. And yes, it is named after my family.

Megan Gunn 8:54
I was gonna be my next question.

Unknown Speaker 8:56
There's a long story there. Well, it was. It was a Scottish trader named Alexander McGregor, who he had a trading post in this area in the I want to say probably the early 1800s. And so he he married one of chiefs showing off sways daughters. And then I mean, that happened quite a bit in that during that time period, traders like that would not saying that there wasn't any love but it was like very strategic relationships, right. So anyway, that's where the McGregor name comes from. Because sometimes people go like you're indigenous and your last name is McGregor will let this like make sense. And I'm like,

Stuart Carlton 9:40
that's true. It's not a traditional indigenous. Certainly.

Unknown Speaker 9:43
No. But anyway, that's that's the story of why McGregor

Stuart Carlton 9:48
what is interesting. I'm looking at pictures now on the internet, and this place is beautiful. I'm no envious.

Unknown Speaker 9:56
We have. It's very well known like we have actually a lot A lot of folks from the states who have cottages in this area there is in to MacGregor Bay and Bay a fin, we have the there's yachts in there all the time in the summer. So it's, it's pretty, it's pretty nice here. It's pretty.

Stuart Carlton 10:16
Yeah, it looks stunning. Frankly, I don't actually only yacht, but I'm about to

Unknown Speaker 10:21
take lots of newest and kayakers, too. So in our budget range, basically,

Stuart Carlton 10:29
stretch, stretch budget. But so that brings us so the reason we brought you on to talk today actually is surplus paper that's coming out in the Journal of Great Lakes research called drawing on Anishinabeg knowledge to protect water. And so this came out and really struck my interest, because it's just you're talking about so you're the indigenous peoples, the white bear, white fish River, First Nation, excuse me, has been there for 1000s of years, but but they have a very, I had to come up with a water protection plan for some reason, right? And it seems like they completely excluded the First Nations, is that right? You wanna give us a little background on the Sudbury Water Protection Plan process. And then we can go from there?

Unknown Speaker 11:10
Well, we'd have to go back to 2002, when there was a small community in South Western Ontario called Walkerton. And what happened there was their water treatment plant wasn't operating correctly. And seven people ended up dying and over 2000 people got sick from the E. coli basically, in the water. So it was a it was, you know, obviously a big tragedy. And following that there was a provincial inquiry, and actually, one of the provincial indigenous lobby groups, they, they made a submission as part of the inquiry. And actually, my sister, Dr. Deborah McGregor, was part of that submission to the to the Walkerton inquiry. But essentially, what came out of it is that, you know, there needs to be better guidelines and regulations around safe drinking water, and in 2000, and I think it was six, the province came up with the Clean Water Act, and part of that Clean Water Act was having these planning areas, these were you, they could develop these source water protection plans. And so there's 19 in Ontario. And so the one that geographically closest to my community is the Sudbury, the Sudbury one. And they do have, or they did have two First Nations as part of that planning process. So there's two communities very close to the city of Sudbury, there's a tic mixing Anishinabeg. And there's one potato First Nation, but I'm not exactly sure why white fish river First Nation was not involved in that planning process. It could have been. So there's I have a couple of theories myself about why this happened. One is if you know, if you're looking strictly on a map, you wouldn't necessarily think that white fish River, First Nation, they probably looked at the reserve boundaries and said, Oh, well, it's not going through the Reserve at all, it doesn't really matter doesn't apply to them, even though it's the white fish River Watershed was one of the watersheds as they looked at, and we're called white fish River, First Nation, but it's right there. It's there in the name. And, you know, from our perspective, you know, our traditional territory extends well beyond the reserve boundaries. You know, and in the past, we've had actually some land claims that have come through, and maybe they just weren't showing up on the maps yet. And, you know, one arm of the government often does not talk to the other arm of the government. Right? So they may be maybe we're just not aware of it. Yeah, other thing, like, my theory is that the community might have been invited to be part of it. But it was kind of like, maybe got lost in all the other, you know, information that comes into the community, because we're not only dealing with like local matters here, like, the local government doesn't just deal with local matters, you are often dealing with provincial and national and international issues, right. So it's, and we don't have like 100 people working for the First Nation. Right? Right. So it might have just got lost that way. Or the other thing I think people often think about too is when they're considering whether to be involved in these types of processes, is whether the process will impact on aboriginal and treaty rights. So there's lots of reasons why it couldn't have might not have happened.

Megan Gunn 14:54
So because you weren't included in that first set of discussions you decide You have to do your own thing. That's right. So what what did that look like? How did that come about?

Unknown Speaker 15:04
One of the very interesting things about my community is we have very strong and passionate and educated people who work here who are from here, who are who work here. There is people within the the administration who felt strongly about this, and were able to access funds in order to do this work. I think our community is quite unique. We have a lot of very well educated people in my community. And, yeah, so just wanting to ensure that the waters that are around our community are protected, because we're, I think, because water, we're really surrounded by water we have. That means we're vulnerable to any contamination that happens, right? And if that, you know, if there's like a devastating, whatever spill, it will have a direct impact.

Stuart Carlton 16:00
So what is the actual process? Like I'm thinking, so we work in extension, and so we get a lot of stakeholder groups together, and it always involves sticky dots. So when you all gather to try to develop this protection plan, was it a sticky dots situation or series? And how did that work? Exactly?

Unknown Speaker 16:14
Yeah, there is a number of different ways that the input was got from community members. So there's interviews there was, you know, focus groups, if you will, there was community meetings where they were, as you know, maps up on the wall, and people were asked to say, like, how did you know, what what activities were you doing and related to water? So there's just a number of different ways. We also, I think, probably what's different than your sticky dot process, too, is that ceremony was part of this whole process. So and that's, you know, what we do we do as Anishinabeg people is, ceremony is part of our lives. And so I know that they had at least one water walk as part of this. And they actually, you know, they got the elementary school kids involved, the daycare gets involved. So I would say that information was gathered in different ways, ways that appealed to people, I remember, there was like this one community meeting, and it was around the fall time, so around fall harvest. And so we had like deer meat, and moose meat and wild rice and things like that, right. So lots of people will come out to a feast. So that I think knowing how to reach people is really important. And so we had, you know, a young community researcher in training to, you know, to do this kind of on the ground work, because it's a lot of work, right? You know, how how busy these things can be. So it was a real community effort.

Megan Gunn 17:54
I'm not too familiar with water walks. And I'm guessing that many of our listeners aren't either, or I guess I have two questions. Are there many water walks involved with doing a water protection? Anything? And what is a water walk? What does that? What does that look like?

Unknown Speaker 18:09
I'm glad you asked that question. I would, I was just like talking away like, no, so I'm not even sure how long ago this was, but you can probably Google her. Her name was Josephine Andaman, she actually passed away a couple of years ago, but she was the one who initiated these called Water walks. And she initiated these walks. And she walked around each of the Great Lakes, of over a course of years. So like, one one years, she would do one lake and one year, she would do another lake. I think one year they did, they walked up the St. Lawrence River. And there was one year where there came from all directions over North America. So essentially, the idea is, as you're walking along, you're praying for the water for it to heal, because we know that you know, because of contamination and other human activities that much of our waters have been contaminated. So it's, it's it's kind of a ceremony, it's about healing. And as you're walking along, you're actually carrying a pail of a copper pail full of water. Yeah. And so in any, it's kind of interesting anytime you like, as you're going along. If you pass like, like a stream or something like you stop and you would offer tobacco to that, that stream or that river, and then you continue on. I've been part of a couple of them. I'm not going to say I'm like this major watch. When it's been coming when it goes by my community. I usually participate help carry more water,

Megan Gunn 19:53
less than anything and

Stuart Carlton 19:54
so through making the offering the idea is that it shows her respect or or how does the offering and for the process?

Unknown Speaker 20:04
Okay, so, in, in our culture, one of our sacred medicines is tobacco and it's not. We had tobacco a long time ago and not the commercial. Right, right, right.

Stuart Carlton 20:17
Factory tobacco? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:18
So it's considered one of our sacred medicines. And when you're offering tobacco, it's, it's actually it's kind of like you're making, you're asking that entity, the spirit of that entity for help, or for to the Creator, or God for help. So it's tobacco is really important in Anishinabeg culture. For example, if I was to, if I wanted to ask an elder something, or I was going to ask them to do a ceremony, I would offer tobacco to them as part of that, as part of the ask. And in fact, I'm going to do that this week, I have, I asked an elder to come and do a talk at the medical school. And so she said, Yes, but I'm like, Okay, now I gotta go and see her to her sword. We've been emailing back and forth to figure out a time that works for her. Yeah, so the idea is that the water walks are important, because we know that the waters are sick, and it's a way to try and help heal them.

Stuart Carlton 21:48
So then bringing your back to the protection plan. So you have this much different compared to how the probably the rest of the Sudbury area did their protection plan, this much different process and the result at the end, you end up with this this protection plan. So what does that look like? Or what does that call for? Can you describe it to us? I guess?

Unknown Speaker 22:09
Yeah, I think what's really important about the protection plan is identifies all the different ways that people have have and continue to interact with the water. It talks about our responsibilities to the water. So in addition, Arbic culture, water is a women's responsibility. So it's our responsibility to take care of the water. So in ceremonies, it's women who do the water ceremonies. So that I think is a real, different aspect. And I think this whole process was also important for reminding us about our, our responsibilities for the water. I think it was a it also a way to identify, you know, the risks that are out there to our waters, and how those risks can be mitigated, and, you know, not only it's not only external threats, but you know, internal threats, right. So, you know, we have a highway running through our community, if there was like a diesel truck, that whatever flipped over like that, that's an issue, right. So, you know, identifying those, those threats and how to mitigate them, I think is part of that is part of that community protection plan. And it's not just I think it's a little different, too. It's not just about, you know, ensuring that the water is going to be safe for humans to consume. But it's also about, you know, we have all these other organisms that rely on the waters to write, they're just as important as we are in for protecting the water.

Stuart Carlton 23:51
So let me so now, so the Summary Plan your cupboard under the greater area plan, as well, I would assume the waters are are they are they not? Or are they do you know?

Unknown Speaker 24:01
You know, I? There is. What I find odd too, is like that there's not a like a Manitoulin plan, which to me would make sense. But I'm so I'm not sure exactly why that didn't happen.

Stuart Carlton 24:14
It's lost to the Sands of Time, I suppose. But But so, so what I guess so looking from the outside, though, so what what is the separate period planning process matter? I guess what I'm asking is is you know, if a lot of the water is going to be protected, though, maybe not all of it what what is but what you're doing is additive to that right? Why is that important? That that get and that these voices that were excluded or not included? How about that? Maybe they were excluded. Maybe they were just not, you know, act of omission, commission. Why is it important to bring out these other voices? Do you think

Unknown Speaker 24:46
we as a community, we can determine what's important to us for ourselves, right? We don't need we don't need the province. We don't need the federal government to determine this for us. We do This process was a way to, for us to determine, you know, the importance of water and why we need to protect it for ourselves for our own purposes. Right. And, and I think part of these, you know, ways that information was gathered was really good, because, you know, that information was shared amongst a number of different community members who might not have, you know, heard about whatever a spring that was, you know, located in this particular part of the community or, or how people, you know, used to interact with the water. So, it's a way to share knowledge within our community that really needs to be passed on to ensure that, you know, the younger generations know what it was like. So like, I grew up in a time when, in my household, we didn't have running water, I was running water. Well, me and my siblings, were there running water. You know, when you haul water, on a daily basis, you don't waste it, you do not waste it. So it's just a different way of thinking about water. Right? So, you know, my kids are lucky, they grew up, they never had to haul water like I did. But important for them to know and understand that right? Like this water is precious, not to wasted not to be, you know, not not to be frivolous with right.

Megan Gunn 26:29
And I think that's a great a great segue into, I guess my next question, how can we, how can we bridge that gap between what we've been raised up with in Western ways with that traditional ecological knowledge? Like, how can we still thrive in I guess, better live with the environment around us? I've been thinking a lot about this for the last week or so?

Unknown Speaker 26:53
That's a really good question. I think, I think it's hard because, you know, the, you know, Anishinabeg worldview about water. I think even for maybe even for younger folks, it might be maybe a little bit harder to understand. But, I mean, I mean, younger folks, in my community, younger people, I think just recognizing that water, water is sacred, like it's a sacred entity, that it has, you know, its own life force, that it's that it's valuable in and of itself, not because it, you know, gives us drinking water, not because it can be sold, not because it can be contaminated for minds. That it's, you know, it's important to have that relationship with water. I talked about the water walks, but there are certain, certain times when we might do water ceremonies, like when the water when the ice breaks up, we would do water ceremony. So praying for that water to heal, I think is is really, really important. I think we have a responsibility, and that's one of our teachings is that we have a responsibility to, to care for the water to protect the water to help heal the waters. So

Stuart Carlton 28:11
think about bridging that gap. And maybe this gets us too far afield. So we can, that's fine. We can just exit. But if I'm in your position, you're nice and calm, and maybe kind and I wouldn't be pissed. I mean, I mean, like under the doctrine of we were here first, if nothing else, and so. So what you what you've just described as a very different way of looking at water, right, compared to sort of the, the Western way, almost a traditional Western, but then you could say, well, I don't know, traditional, right? Okay, compared to the Western wipe. At a minimum, most Westerners don't think of water as sacred in that way. We don't think about it at all, frankly. And so isn't that enraging that people come and push you out? And take your and then they talk about protecting the sacred resource without even consulting you? Like, oh, just I would just walk around man all of the time, I guess.

Unknown Speaker 29:02
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's not going to be helpful, though. Right. I mean, it's, I mean, in some, I guess, in some cases, it could be right, you know, when you're, when you're at those particular tables, and hopefully, you know, invited to those tables where they are making decisions about water. But I think that, I don't know, I've been around the block. I've been doing, you know, I've been working for First Nations for at least 30 years now. 30 years. So just got to channel that energy differently. Right. And I don't, you know, I think things are slowly changing, like, Western perspectives are slowly changing about, you know, attitudes toward the environment and water and things like that, I think. But I think for ourselves, it's ensuring that we Know that these ceremonies are important in that we're ensuring that they continue. They continue to happen, right. So teaching. So for example, we had, I want to, I think we had a spin last spring when we did the water ceremony. And so, you know, I had my sister in law, and she had her little granddaughter with her, right, so ensuring that these kind of teachings and knowledge and ceremonies are passed down through the generations, right. So that's, to me, that's really important. I can't control what the federal government does, or the provincial government does, but I can control you know, what happens here in my little territory, right? That, and that's what I do. Like, I just, I can't, I can't be too focused on that, because it's not going to be helpful. Well, this

Stuart Carlton 30:53
is really interesting. And we sure do appreciate you, sharing your knowledge and perspective with us. It's really, really valuable. And we'll put a link to the paper in our show notes, which you can find it teach me about the great lakes.com/fifty 454 And we encourage everybody to go check it out. But actually, Laura Lee, that is not why we invited you on teach me about the Great Lakes this week. The reason that we invited you on teach me about the Great Lakes is to ask you two questions. The first one is this. If you could choose to have a great donut for breakfast or a great sandwich for lunch, which one would you choose?

Unknown Speaker 31:24
Well, I don't eat breakfast. So I guess I'll have a sandwich at lunch.

Stuart Carlton 31:27
Which by default, okay. And so, when I come to visit, either, either the northern Toronto, Northern Ontario, excuse me School of Medicine, or the Manitoulin Island, where should I go to get a really good sandwich?

Dr. Lorrilee McGregor 31:42
There's some great places on Manitoulin Island Sugarbush Cafe I'll say, all right, writing

Stuart Carlton 31:49
it down. Now sugar, I will arrive in my yacht, and about the Great Lakes yacht, we'll take it there. Let's go to sugar, which Cafe that's wonderful.

Megan Gunn 32:01
So what is a special place and the Great Lakes that you'd like to share with our audience and what makes us be what makes that place special?

Unknown Speaker 32:09
There's a really awesome place called Yabba Kong. Probably about a, you can only get there by boat. It's probably about a half hour boat ride from where I'm where I live. And Yabba Kong is a sacred mountain. And if you park your boat, dock your boat park your boat at the bottom of a hill. And it's about a 2030 minute climb up the hill. But once you get up there, the view is just spectacular. At one time a mining company wanted to basically mine that mountain to knock it down and yeah, but anyway, we reminded them that it's in our territory and and it's sacred and that it's not to be mined. Anyway, it's still there. And it's it's spectacular.

Stuart Carlton 33:06
Well, Dr. Lorrilee McGregor, who is let me get it right who is an assistant professor of Indigenous Health at the Northern Ontario School of Medicine thank you for coming on and teaching us all about the Great Lakes

Dr. Lorrilee McGregor 33:19
chimique watch Bama P meanwhile coop in

Stuart Carlton 33:46
was a fascinating interview fascinating woman on a complicated issue. And you know, we try to have indigenous people on as often as we can on teach me about the Great Lakes and I'm always just, I'm always amazed that they really they don't don't just walk around pissed off. Like that's what I would do. It's It's so difficult, sort of the hand that they've been dealt them, we dealt them.

Megan Gunn 34:05
And I like how she said like, you do walk away. I'm pissed off for a little bit. But then you channel that energy into protecting the area.

Stuart Carlton 34:14
Yeah, that's more productive. But you know. It sounds good. Excellent. Great. What do you think cool going on in your neck of the woods? What are you what are you working on these days? We got freedom seekers. What else is happening are we about to

Megan Gunn 34:26
I'm actually about to go on a field trip with a local high school or I guess not local to me, local to us. But with a high school in Northwest Indiana, we're gonna go on a field trip and do water quality monitoring with a group of high school students so that they can have a better connection to the Great Lakes, like Michigan is right in their backyards. And from what the teacher said most of most, if not all of these students have never been to the lake so they don't have that appreciation that we do. And just getting them connected, doing some hands on experiments and follow up and data just I'm learning the scientific method and I'm this is where I'm putting my passion and my energy

Stuart Carlton 35:06
oh well that's awesome anywhere you're putting your passion energy to it's worth putting passion and energy to notice through I mean you heard the difference right between I mean I don't want to be flippant so take this in the spirit I mean it but like you have guests we just spoke with talking about how the water is sacred. And then on the other hand, you have kids who have not ever even been to the lake, the amazing freshwater resource right and so it's just very different. Yeah, well, that is super fantastic. I can't wait to hear how that goes. I'm good. Well, let's do the thing. If I can find the thing there it is. Boom.

Megan Gunn 35:38
Me about the Great Lakes is brought to you by the fine people at Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant, we encourage you to check out the great work we do at i Sea grant.org and i l i n Sea Grant on Facebook, Twitter and other social media. Teach me about the Great Lakes is produced by hope charters here and Lynn Foley making done in Rini miles. Ethan Chitty is our associate producer fixing our super fun podcast artwork as well. Joel Davenport. This show was edited by the awesome Ken Rose and I encourage you to check out her work at aspiring robot.com If you have a question or comment about the show, please email it to teach me about the great lakes@gmail.com or leave a message on our hotline at 765496 I SG you can follow the show on Twitter at Teach Great Lakes. Thanks for listening and keep grading those