Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript, we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes teach me about the Great Lakes John, welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes and exactly twice monthly podcast in which I A Great Lakes novice as people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. My name is Sir Carlton. We're here live at jasm 2022. That's right, the conference that must be enunciated carefully. Let's not get confused for something else. My name is Sue Carlton and I know a lot about media coverage of areas of concern in the Great Lakes region between 2011 and 2021. But I don't know a lot about the Great Lakes and that is the purpose of this year show. And so we're lucky today to be joined by a whole bunch of people the first person with me here is Carolyn Foley, Carolyn whats up.

Carolyn Foley 0:43
You just called me ray from the Ghostbusters and I'm cool with that.

Stuart Carlton 0:46
Oh good. I wasn't sure if you'd be cool I wasn't sure how invested you would be in like the Egon thing Yeah, no Ray you're the heart of teach me about the Great Lakes so that's fine. Yeah. And also joined tonight by it's the legendary the rare she needs her own theme song that she doesn't have it because I haven't written it yet. Hope Charters. The rare person who well immediately says you're welcome for appearing on our show. Well, thank you hope for for deigning to appear on our podcast, the one that you and I planned initially. And you appeared on the first two episodes, and we will have special guests galore. Well, we'll just want special guests coming up momentarily, but before we do, so, teach me about the Great Lakes hero Monty and rose the two piping clovers who settled in Chicago.

Carolyn Foley 1:31
Cotton balls with toothpick legs.

Stuart Carlton 1:32
Yeah, the cotton balls of toothpicks legs episode, I'm not sure but it'll be in the show notes. So just look in the show notes for the episode number. Monty sadly died over the weekend. Suddenly, he was you know, he was about four or five years old at least and clovers. That's, you know, that's their lifespan. So it's not necessarily shocking. But it is sad. And then even doubly sad is Rose has not shown up yet at Montrose beach this year, I don't think

Carolyn Foley 1:55
yeah, it's a bummer. Especially, you know, they're really, really cute.

Stuart Carlton 1:59
Yeah, they're really cute. It gets me thinking a lot about the powers of symbols. And all honestly, like we talk a lot about the power of like a symbol and how important that can be, you know, for example, in our website, I have a secret number we have our value statement, right? And it's just like a statement. It doesn't do anything, but it's a powerful symbol of like, who we are and what have you. And that's really powerful. And once numerals, it's to clovers out of I mean there are dozens of them. But but that symbol is really important. And so it's worth taking a minute to think about that. And so we'll have more on this in a future episode, I think but for now, we do recognize it and we're sorry, I was really inspired last year by the story of Monty and rose. I hadn't heard it before then. And I think that it's you know, it's something worth marking so Monty and rose. We will pour one out for you here at the Grand Rapids Brewing Company. But on to other things. So today live we have a special guest and some fun and some games playing. Our special guest today is Ebrahimian we're gonna bring him on but first we are going to have what do we do Carolyn, you pick you read these and pick one?

Our guest today is a great friend of Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant it's Ed Verhamme, who is a senior engineering principal, I think at LimnoTech. Is that the right title?

Ed Verhamme 3:45
Yes, it is new title, new title. Congratulations, principals, Senior Engineer,

Stuart Carlton 3:50
Principal, Senior Principal senior and so it's one title. Yes. It's a great title. And thank you so much for coming into my teach me about the Great Lakes. And so for those who don't know, Lim no tech, are the ones who manage our buoys including are not managed. That's not true, but they build and help deploy. We manage very much we manage our buoys, and including the brand new, Chewy, Chewy, Chewy, who was recently put out there that brilliantly named if I do say so myself, truly. So how long have you been doing gooey stuff?

Ed Verhamme 4:21
I've been doing buoys since 2010.

Stuart Carlton 4:25
So how many boys have you helped to birth in the in the 12 years since then? Birth B, E, R, th, birth B, E, R th,

Ed Verhamme 4:34
you know, we're up to we're gonna be close to like 40 to 50 buoys total Yeah, at the end of this year.

Stuart Carlton 4:42
No kidding. And this so those are all through lLimnoTech and y'all deployments and all like Michigan or where are they?

Ed Verhamme 4:47
I mean, we're, we're helping people do all kinds like building buoys, selling them, putting them out ourselves. So they're, they're in Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Lake Erie, all the lakes.

Carolyn Foley 4:59
And even though West, right,

Ed Verhamme 5:01
actually, yeah, we have buoys on Crater Lake in Oregon, and even down by San Diego.

Stuart Carlton 5:07
Oh man. So those are in prettier terrain once. So which movies in the most beautiful location?

Ed Verhamme 5:13
Oh my god Crater Lake or that's what, Donnie,

Stuart Carlton 5:17
the Oregon coast is the most beautiful place I think I've ever been.

Carolyn Foley 5:20
But I'm gonna jump in and say and you do much more than doing this? Would you

Ed Verhamme 5:24
like to tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, I mean buoys are they're just an interesting intersection of this science engineering. And it really goes back to the modeling side. I mean, how do we understand how lakes work? So I think the, you know, we can certainly try and make a mathematical model of the system, but how do we actually get live measurements? So I think that's where my job is to transition to, you know, our understanding about lakes work, we just need more measurements of it, so and so.

Stuart Carlton 5:56
So yeah, so one thing I've learned is like, the technology is advancing really quickly, right? And so what are some of the kinds of new sensors that help you to get those measurements for your models?

Ed Verhamme 6:04
I mean, some of the new sensors, I mean, you know, we've well added web cameras, which I mean, that's been really great to just see the lakes. We're also adding chlorophyll sensors, you know, we can monitor harmful algal blooms, we can monitor oxygen. So I think we're just, you know, trying to understand the, like, weird parts of the Great Lakes, you know, we kind of know that we the lakes, do these weird things, algal blooms, and Lake Superior. How do we know they're there? You know, we monitor them now.

Stuart Carlton 6:31
So the buoys can detect algal blooms and things like that. Yeah, definitely sensor. Like algal sensor. What is the sensor for that?

Ed Verhamme 6:38
So these are LEDs that are specific wavelengths, no, one's green, and one's going to be blue. So the blue the for the blue green algae, I mean, they're literally called Blue Green Algae.

Stuart Carlton 6:53
Yeah. And so it just it senses that color. No kidding. Yeah,

Ed Verhamme 6:57
I mean, it's, you know, again, you'll think of all the different colors you can make with the TV screens and LED technology, they can stick it in a tiny sensor, shine it at the water, and you can tell what it's absorbing and what's bouncing back. So,

Stuart Carlton 7:10
so what and somebody who's modeling, what type of modeling, do you? So how does this fit factor into modeling? I guess we talked about models a

Ed Verhamme 7:17
lot. Yeah, I mean, you know, math folks, try to understand every part of the environment, you know, we try and understand every drop of water every pound of phosphorus. So these mathematical models are just translating physics, chemistry and biology into a mathematical equation. It's really grounding our reality. And I think we're used to weather models from the weather. I mean, we all like weather modeling, is based off of the same types of phenomenon, chemistry, physics, and how is air moving? So like we have those same models for water.

Carolyn Foley 7:50
One other thing because we're at the joint aquatic sciences meeting jazz. Yes. jasm. Yes. You are a past president of Yes. International Association for Great Lakes research.

Ed Verhamme 8:05
Yes, that's right. Yes.

Carolyn Foley 8:07
And you're actually a pretty big part of making this meeting happen. Yeah, I

Ed Verhamme 8:11
think this this conference has been like five years in the making. I mean, you know, I Agler we just started a large lake. So the world including the Great Lakes, I mean, there's 3000 plus people here that are studying freshwater in general. So certainly the Great Lakes contain freshwater. And so it's really great to bring together nine different scientific societies that understand the you know, fish really well, but understand the bentos really well. So we have all these experts on every part of water. And they're here, thinking about the Great Lakes, as well. So I think it's really neat to see this, like intersectionality of all these scientists and these people, I mean, there's 60 Different countries represented here. So it's really a global expertise. That is studying water. I mean, this is the like, it's the like nerdy is geekiest science conference about water ever held? That is

Carolyn Foley 9:05
perfect.

Stuart Carlton 9:07
So limited tech is your company. Right? And but you're expanding right into you have this new deal is?

Ed Verhamme 9:13
Yeah, so I've been working at Lenovo tech for 18 years now. Which is a long time. And I'm really happy to have been starting to work with all this technology, all these sensors. And, you know, like he kind of reached a point. And this is kind of where we're getting into, like Elon Musk land here,

Stuart Carlton 9:29
Elon Musk money by any chance.

Ed Verhamme 9:30
I mean, maybe he'll buy, you know, buy a new so we just started a new company that's focused on technology. I think it's like, you know, we think about where does that come from? It's a very complex answer. And I think in the Great Lakes, we haven't thought enough about how we build, develop and source our own technology locally. I think we all think of Detroit as this like, yeah, that's where cars come from. But why can't that be where online nutrient analyzers come from as well?

Stuart Carlton 9:58
It's such a good question. Because the first thought and everybody minds

Ed Verhamme 10:02
Rolls right off your tongue. So anyway, so so we just started a new company called freeboard technology, which is just really trying to like, have have all of us work together, we all have the same problems on all the great legs. And that technology element is hard for everyone. So I think the more tech we can see, the more we can attract talent, the more we can get kids and college students to be interested in staying in the Great Lakes and apply technology here. I'm all about it. So that's what freeboard technology is. So

Stuart Carlton 10:33
that's real big, which is fine. And maybe it's too early to know. But like, what, what do you mean by like, applied technologies and new types of sensors? Is it new types of like computer model stuff? Well,

Ed Verhamme 10:42
well, I mean, again, you just think of your iPhone. Like, that's an incredible time today. My iPhone, incredible density of technology. And honestly, like if we could have that thought process to a buoy, these buoys would be the size of a coke can be everywhere. But you know, we don't have those yet. And we should and the technology's there, and we just haven't gotten to it. So you don't instead have to yell buoys, like we're going to be to like the

Carolyn Foley 11:10
377 plus million.

Ed Verhamme 11:13
Yeah, that's right.

Stuart Carlton 11:14
This was really like r&d type stuff,

Ed Verhamme 11:16
then. Absolutely. Yeah. So we're gonna have, you know, a lot more breweries, and we're already just even after starting that company, we're going to be doubling the number of buoys in Lake Erie in the first year. So just if you think about technology for just a moment, we can just double and triple in size, what we can do. So that's what that's what I'm excited to be doing with reboard technology. Interesting.

Carolyn Foley 11:38
So, Ed, yes, we have a plan for degree. We got the past or the current president. All right, President. Yeah. I don't rightly know when the gavel gets passed, but current president Andy brand Berger, who's from Environment and Climate Change Canada? We asked him a couple of questions.

Ed Verhamme 11:58
Okay, I'm nervous. So this is like a dating game. This is like, like a game?

Carolyn Foley 12:05
Yes. You said you were gonna make a game of nutrients theme song.

Stuart Carlton 12:08
You know, I did say that. I know what it was gonna be like, but the thing is, I didn't actually make it because I can't have it. But the thing is, it actually reminds me I was thinking about it's like a showdown really, isn't it? Yeah,

Carolyn Foley 12:18
it really is exactly like a showdown. Yeah,

Stuart Carlton 12:22
maybe they got some Colt 40. Fives. Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's just do this yeah.

It always seems like such a good idea. Like in the in the cold confines of my office and recording studio. Some

Carolyn Foley 13:20
people chose to tell you, it's not a great idea, sometimes. All right. So, Ed, here's the deal. We're going to ask a question. You just go for it and answer them hopefully Andy's answer. Okay. And we'll see how similar So Andy, do you have Andy's introduction lined up?

Andy Bramburger 13:39
Yeah. Um, so my name is Andy Bramburger. I'm a research scientist with environmental and climate change Canada. And I'm currently the president of the International Association for Great Lakes research until I guess sometime in June this year. My research focuses mostly on phytoplankton and algal ecology and large lakes. And a lot of that is looking at how environmental stressors, both natural and anthropogenic, so read that as climate change, I suppose. Effect dynamics and structure of algae communities. My background really I did a lot of work in ancient lakes in Indonesia. So I'm a bit of a tropical ecologist. And it always makes me think of Tropical Ecology when I see the changes that we're seeing associated with our lakes getting warmer and warmer here in temperate systems. But I've also done work in in the Canadian Arctic and Florida Everglades and basically freshwater systems all over the world.

Carolyn Foley 14:42
Of the Great Lakes, which Lake if any, is most negatively affected by nutrient runoff.

Ed Verhamme 14:50
Wow, that should be an easy question. But you know, this was the game show. So like, do you go for the easy answer? That's it. Are we thinking the same thing

Stuart Carlton 15:00
He trying to get as close to me as possible there's no winner there's no winner there's always a winner. Is this

Ed Verhamme 15:06
like Hollywood Squares?

Stuart Carlton 15:07
Is this kind of similar? It's similar lesson you end Oh, hopefully but we'll see. Okay, Lake Erie does that negatively affected? Let's see what Andy said negatively affected

Andy Bramburger 15:18
in my opinion Lake Erie is the most negatively affected by right you know we can we can call Lake Sinclair I guess a pretty good Lake. You know it's kind of like Lake Champlain a Lake of the Woods and lakes and coasts. But it's pretty good.

Carolyn Foley 15:35
Right? So to be fair, when I saw to be found, when I when I asked you the question, I was like, you can include Lake St. Clair in there. And that's why he said Lake Clear Lake Sinclair was a pretty good Lake. But

Ed Verhamme 15:48
yeah, that is not a great lake. It's not a great because it even pretty good. It is included in Lake Erie. Functionally, it's like you wait, how

Stuart Carlton 15:55
does it Lincoln included in?

Ed Verhamme 15:57
You got to divide the line somewhere? Oh, right. It's kind of like like you're on board here on Port Huron is the official governmental dividing line. Okay.

Carolyn Foley 16:06
And I mean, like St. Clair is sort of like a delta.

Ed Verhamme 16:09
Yes, it is. It's a beautiful, beautiful lake. But it is a part of Lake Erie.

Stuart Carlton 16:13
Not that great.

Ed Verhamme 16:14
I mean, it's technically part of the connecting channels, which are really cool features of the Great Lakes, but

Stuart Carlton 16:20
but the show isn't called teach me about the kind of cool lakes.

Ed Verhamme 16:22
I mean, it's not teach me about the connecting channels, right? No, no, no, that's

Stuart Carlton 16:25
a different. That's a different show. Okay. All right. All right. So excited,

Carolyn Foley 16:30
which Lake if any, is the most positively affected by nutrient runoff?

Stuart Carlton 16:37
Alright, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now, before you say this, we're gonna do a drum roll. So you need to wait for the drum roll. And then there will be the dribble, and then you say it.

Ed Verhamme 16:50
Lake Superior,

Carolyn Foley 16:51
makes superior. Alright, let's, let's hear your reasoning first.

Ed Verhamme 16:57
I mean, if there was no runoff at all, it would be just like a body of distilled water. Nothing could

Stuart Carlton 17:04
live there. Oh, so Lake Superior benefits from heavy runoff.

Ed Verhamme 17:07
I mean, if the Duluth ESRI wasn't there, yeah. It would be a very sterile?

Stuart Carlton 17:13
Would there be like a lot of fish and stuff in there? Or would it be No? Alright. So here's the question.

Ed Verhamme 17:17
I mean, there's already not that many visual experience to begin with.

Stuart Carlton 17:21
Here's the question. Is Lake Michigan. Too clean? Some people think it is. Some people say that Lake Michigan is too clean. Some

Carolyn Foley 17:28
people say that Lake Michigan is too late.

Stuart Carlton 17:32
Thomas, at this point like Michigan has to clean nutrient expert Ed for HeyMy. Would you say Lake Michigan has to clean?

Ed Verhamme 17:39
You know, that's a relative question.

Stuart Carlton 17:41
So that's a yes or no question. Excellent.

Ed Verhamme 17:43
i The answer is yes, it is to clean.

Stuart Carlton 17:47
So why would you say is to clean based on what I

Ed Verhamme 17:50
mean? It's we've had an invasion and incredible invasion of zebra and quagga mussels, and they've cleared it up. So Lake, Lake Michigan and Huron are cleaner than clear then Lake Superior, which is hard to fathom.

Stuart Carlton 18:04
And it shouldn't be and so like the overall kind of biological productivity is reduced? Is that the deal? Yeah. All right. Well, let's hear what Andy said.

Andy Bramburger 18:12
In some ways, that could also be Lake Erie. And it really depends on you know, sort of what your your focus is, as, as an algae person. You know, it's it's really hard to say, from an algae perspective, it's, you know, looking at harmful algae blooms, that's certainly what we would think of anthropogenically is a negative response, or a negative impact. In other areas, those blooms have been occurring, probably before people were around. Certainly, we've made them worse and a lot of cases, but Lake Erie also supports a really fantastic and valuable commercial and sport fishery. So, you know, there's debates both in Lake Erie and Lake Ontario as to whether our phosphorus targets are too strict, and whether further reductions in phosphorus, although they may help our algae problems, if that will negatively affect those very valuable fisheries. Again, the jury's still out on how tightly linked offshore fisheries are to near shore phosphorus inputs. So you know, that being said, Lake Erie probably benefits in terms of, you know, walleye and perch production.

Ed Verhamme 19:27
I mean, I mean, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Can't be the worst lake and the best Lake. You know, you can't

Carolyn Foley 19:33
for the record, I believe I agree with you. Yes.

Stuart Carlton 19:36
That's an interesting point, it gets to that same thing we're talking about, right? Is that that nutrients are there just a factor of an ecosystem. And so if they're more or less nutrients, it kind of it can change the way that things it changes the way the ecosystem is, and sometimes that's good and improves the fishery. In the case, that's what he's saying about Lake Erie because of the phosphorus potentially, but then in Lake Michigan, there's not enough phosphorus and so the fishery is reduced, but there are other kids generations, right?

Ed Verhamme 20:01
Yeah, I mean, there's so there's a stat about Lake Erie that I still to this day do not understand. They say that Lake Erie has more fish than all of the other great lakes combined. Really? I don't believe that. But how do they live with all the Habs? I don't know. I mean, it must be like, I just think of a fish tank. And if you filled your fish tank, with fish, we need to find a fisheries biologist and have them prove this to us. Yeah, like they should be able to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not

Stuart Carlton 20:32
know what we'll get Brian Roth on. We're gonna rock back on and so we need like

Ed Verhamme 20:34
a Judge Judy, we can hear both sides. I don't know if it's true. But

Stuart Carlton 20:39
we'll have judge Brian rock. Oh, my God, this was the best idea I've had in quite some time. Thank you. And yes, we'll invite you back on and Andy. And we'll have judge Brian Roth. And then you can we'll do a total. I'm not even kidding. All right, great. All right. Let's keep rolling. We're running low on time. All right.

Carolyn Foley 20:52
Next question. There aren't many left, what is the coolest way to monitor nutrients?

Ed Verhamme 21:00
The coolest way, the coolest way.

Stuart Carlton 21:02
This way.

Ed Verhamme 21:05
I'll just oh my god. I mean, for me, the coolest way is with an online nutrient analyzer that can process a Analytical Lab sample in the field, and send that result to the internet and just show it on my phone within 20 minutes. So that is the like, hands down.

Stuart Carlton 21:24
I'll be honest, that is cool. I thought chewy was the coolest way. But that's an even cooler way tied, it's tied.

Andy Bramburger 21:30
To me, the coolest way to monitor nutrients is to look at what the algae are doing. And I say this for a lot of reasons. One is just because I I feel like our reliance upon instruments is maybe a little bit putting the cart before the horse or maybe overlooking some of the the important connections and mechanisms that are at play before we just go out and you know, dip or probe and look at chlorophyll. Even within that, you know, looking at chlorophyll tells you a fair bit about how much algal biomass is in the water. But it doesn't tell you who's there. It doesn't tell you what they're doing. But we've developed over the years really, you know, well documented tight relationships between certain algal indicators, and nutrient status, and a whole suite of other parameters within the lakes. So to be able to, you know, look at those indicators, you're essentially asking the algae what they're seeing. And they can track those things, either on a much more rapid timescale than we'd ever be able to vote and sample every day. Or, on the other hand, you can look at how they'll assimilate and the communities will, will kind of coalesce or change over time. So it's a really nice way to look at sort of whatever timescale you want whatever level of spatial resolution you want. And, you know, they're they're fun to look at in a microscope, which to me makes it a cool way to monitor nutrients.

Stuart Carlton 23:07
So this is fun, because what we essentially have is like these two poles, right? He's like talking about this old school analog, looking at the algae to monitor the nutrients, which is good. And you're talking I don't remember what you said, because, you know, but and you were talking about the really high tech in your pocket situation. Right.

Ed Verhamme 23:22
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like the difference between the sundial and a smartphone. Right. I mean, one will, they'll both tell you the time. No one's just a lot cooler. But I think this,

Stuart Carlton 23:35
the sundial might be cool. Dewar is still on this Sunday. Yeah, I'm like, wait a minute. You

Ed Verhamme 23:40
I mean, have you? Have you tried taking a selfie, this measurement when it's cloudy? It doesn't work?

Stuart Carlton 23:46
Yeah. Ridiculous.

Carolyn Foley 23:48
If you could tell our listeners one thing about nutrients in the Great Lakes. What would it be?

Ed Verhamme 23:54
Wow. I know if anyone watches RuPaul here RuPaul. RuPaul has this like reading is fundamental. So I say nutrients are fundamental. I mean, they're a part of every part of your life. I think just thinking about the I mean, algae are plants. They need nutrients. So they're fundamental to the road production, everything. So again, that's that's what I would say they're a fundamental element.

Carolyn Foley 24:22
Yeah, yes. All right. I'll just say what Andy said. He was like, and we'll edit it in later he was like, that they're not the be all and end all. Like, Oh, well. Yeah,

Andy Bramburger 24:37
that it's not the be all and end all that everyone makes it out to be. Even with respect to harmful algae blooms, certainly phosphorus is is what fuels the fire to a large extent. But when we start looking through decades or centuries that human beings have been in the Great Lakes space and the overwhelming signal that we see is one of of climate and warming and Lake stratification. And that even sort of overwhelms the signals that we see of cultural eutrophication and recovery. So it is important, especially in terms of absolute biomass or absolute production or how quickly that system is turning over carbon. But what determines who's there, what their sort of metabolic capabilities or community metabolic capabilities are. And the ultimate fate of carbon that enters the food web can be due in large part to climate change or stratification. So, you know, it's it is really important to think about nutrients, it is really important to regulate nutrients. But it's important that we think about it in the context of the larger biological community and what other drivers might be changing system that, you know, we we frequently overlook, I think in our in our attempts to manage

Carolyn Foley 25:59
Is there anything else you want to share at this point that will maybe get into this episode?

Ed Verhamme 26:03
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, talking about nutrients. So I will say I'm very biased in that. I only think about the P

Stuart Carlton 26:12
titles aren't is done and done and done.

Ed Verhamme 26:15
And I don't think about the end that much. So dnn. The other thing that I heard the other day is someone told me don't pee in my lake. And also we have some brochures called Don't pee on your lawn. So and it just, it just sticks with me. I mean, there's that there's that part of nutrients that's very relatable. So, you know,

Stuart Carlton 26:35
this has been really fascinating. And we've really liked hearing about all the different technology we use. Of course we love the work you do with our buoys and things like that and your thoughts on nutrients and what you're an expert and I'll be honest, I think you won that game. I mean,

Ed Verhamme 26:48
only play I'm sorry, Andy. Yeah, it's

Stuart Carlton 26:51
fine. He's He's overwhelmed with I Agler duties, right. It's heaviest, the head that wears the crown. I would like to know that even when it's between Andy and Eddie Stewart is still thinks that he is the winner. I would have won had I played? Absolutely no.

Carolyn Foley 27:05
He would have chilled you too. Well, I'm glad I didn't play

Ed Verhamme 27:08
them because I value my life. But I will say Andy, he's still cooler than me. Like, if you haven't met Andy, he is an awesome cool laid back guy. And like He talks so serious on this show. Like he's like, I don't know, he just got to Ziglar.

Stuart Carlton 27:25
But that's actually not why we invited you on teach me about the Great Lakes this week. The reason that we invite you and teach me on their lakes is we ask you two questions. And the first one is this. If you could choose to have a great donut for breakfast, or a great sandwich for lunch, which would you choose?

Ed Verhamme 27:40
Oh my god. The first one is donut.

Stuart Carlton 27:44
Yeah. Donut for breakfast or a sandwich for lunch?

Ed Verhamme 27:46
I mean, Boston Cream doughnut. Doughnut so many people choose sandwich and I always disappointed donut Absolutely, boss. I mean, you ever walked into a donut store on you're like, at a glance you can be like, betters my donut. Right? You can just see it.

Stuart Carlton 28:05
Oh my God, my soul donut is right there. No, you know, it's the one right away, right?

Ed Verhamme 28:09
Like Tim Hortons knows I'm coming. They got the dog hanging out the window.

Stuart Carlton 28:14
If I'm in Ann Arbor, that's where that's where you are right? And arbor. Yeah. And I want to get a good doughnut. Boston cream or otherwise, where should I go?

Ed Verhamme 28:23
Washington, dairy. Washington, Washington on dairy. You know, there's always like a classic donut shop. I mean, they don't have Boston Cream donuts. But they have those like fresh, like, you know, like, you've been like six and you're like, Yeah, where did these go? It's like those blades. Yeah, fresh doughnuts. I'm like, that's a really good. Yeah, Washtenaw Dairy all the way.

Stuart Carlton 28:45
The Mary Lou. Of Yeah, that's

Carolyn Foley 28:46
better than Mary. Sorry, Mary Louis. Oh, Mary Louise. Oh,

Stuart Carlton 28:51
under new ownership. No, there's still good. Stop that. So the other thing we're like, you know, part of the goal of this podcast is other than to not get fired, is to sort of help create a community around the Great Lakes and realize what a special a wonderful resource. This is. Right? And so one way we do this is by asking the second question, is there a special place in the Great Lakes that you would like to share with our listeners and what makes it so special?

Ed Verhamme 29:13
You know, I think I mean, the Great Lakes for me is about, like solitude, and just like, forgetting there's anyone ever alive ever. I think that that place is off Dora County, Wisconsin. You go like, you drive all the way down to our county. You jump on a ferry, you're on Washington Island, you jump on another ferry, you're on Rock Island, and you're like, the middle of nowhere. And it's just like surreal. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful space. So that's like, that's my ultimate favorite spot and the Great Lakes.

Stuart Carlton 29:46
I know where my next vacation is to get away from my kids. Didn't take it off.

Ed Verhamme 29:53
That's the whole the whole islands estate part. You can camp on it. You can just be left overnight, and you're done. stuck on an island. It's just beautiful. So,

Stuart Carlton 30:03
Don and done. Well adver HeyMy principal senior engineer with lindo tech and what is your what is your deal with the new place? what's your what's your title with

Ed Verhamme 30:13
their president? freeboard technology

Stuart Carlton 30:15
president of Freeport technology and past president Obama Agler the man who is doubly President, thank you so much for coming on and teaching us all about the

Ed Verhamme 30:23
Great Lakes now. Thank you an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you so much.

Stuart Carlton 30:52
Well, that was excellent. Rather than ever, our usual post show banter, we're just going to wrap up our first inaugural Live episode but first a couple of thank yous right. We have a couple of thank yous first, thank you to Dr. Thomas hook director of Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant for letting us know. Thank you, Thomas, for letting us do this. Our second thank you is to the Grand Rapids Brewing Company. And then, of course, thank you to the Nurse Association for the Great Lakes research who have been a great friend of teach me about the Great Lakes and the broader what is the it's not the the

Ed Verhamme 31:24
joint Aquatic Science

Stuart Carlton 31:28
Consortium the consortium the consortium

Ed Verhamme 31:30
of aquatic science societies?

Stuart Carlton 31:32
There we go the consortium casts like mama cast is eating a sandwich right, so very appropriate. She's saying anyway. Leave folk music behind. I think karaoke is next on Carolyn's list. Teach me about the Great Lakes is brought to you by the fine people at Illinois-Indiana. Sea Grant we encourage you to check out the framework we do an IC grant.org and n i l i and Sea Grant on Facebook and other social media Twitter to teach me about the Great Lakes is produced by hope charters, who's here tonight Carolyn Foley. Megan Gunny Rini miles he continues our associate producer and our fixer are super fun podcast artwork is by Joan Davenport. The show is edited by the hardest working person in show business when Rose and we encourage you to check her work out at aspiring robot.com We should some q&a. If you have a question or comment about the show, send us an email teaching about the great lakes@gmail.com or leave a message on our hotline at 765496 I SG for Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. You can follow us on Twitter and teach Great Lakes sometimes we have Paul sometimes we don't It depends on if Stuart or Carolyn wins the argument. Regardless, everybody thank you so much for listening. And of course, keep greatin' those lakes!