Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript, we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes teach me about the Great Lakes. Welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes a monthly podcast in which I A Great Lakes novice get people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me about the Great Lakes. My name is Stuart Carlton. I'm Assistant Director at Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant and I'm joined as always by Carolyn Foley. Carolyn, what is up?

Carolyn Foley 0:23
You know, the sun is shining slightly today, but then it's also rainy, so we're doing okay,

Stuart Carlton 0:28
yeah, that's kind of this time in a nutshell. For every little bit of shine. There's also some rain. We're thinking about the Grateful Dead on our sort of Work Chat the other day, and so for every silver lining has its touch of gray, and that seems to be where we are right now. But you're holding up okay, given quarantines and social distancing, and what have you is,

Carolyn Foley 0:49
yeah, you know, being someone who likes to be by themselves pretty often anyway, you do. All right with that.

Stuart Carlton 0:55
It really probably reminds you of growing up in Canada, where you had to go days without seeing people just because of how big the country is in remote.

Carolyn Foley 1:01
Yes, that's absolutely 100% Correct. And I appreciate the Canada just let

Stuart Carlton 1:06
it get it done with quick. Okay. So one thing that's become really obvious, I think, to us, is we're still under quarantine is microscopic organisms and tiny things like they matter a lot, even though we can't see them right now, you know, the entire global economy is being dictated by a virus, right. And so we thought this would be a good time to focus on tiny things, but maybe not viral things, because there's a lot of virus going on right there. And try to learn about the role of microbes in the Great Lakes. And fortunately, you knew somebody who could help. Right,

Carolyn Foley 1:39
right. I did. Yeah. So we actually did a series of workshops. From the time I started with Sea Grant back in around 2010, we have done a series of workshops, and every single one of them, there would be this group of people saying, we need to know about the base of the food web, the microbes really matter. And I can remember people talking about like, how do we get people to care about microbes, because people care about salmon, they want to eat the salmon. They want to catch the salmon, but I believe there was a comment about like making placards and like, Yay, save the microbe. So a couple of years back, we ran a competition with Michigan Sea Grant. And through that competition, we specifically tried to fund some work on the lower foodweb. And Dr. Rachel Paretsky was one of the people who was successful in that competition.

Stuart Carlton 2:27
Great. Well, let's go ahead and bring on Rachel Right after I'll go with Jazzy guitar theme.

Great and our guest today is Dr. Rachel Paretsky, who is an assistant professor in the Department of Biological Sciences sciences, excuse me at the University of Illinois, Chicago, she settles Mike studies, microbial ecology biogeochemistry, bacterial diversity, community structure and interactions in natural environments. That's a lot to study and a lot of words that I kind of know, but don't actually know Rachel, how are you today?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 3:06
I'm doing great. How would you pick the wrong

Stuart Carlton 3:09
week to stop sniffing glue, but that's okay. So let's start with sort of definitions. Right? We're going to talk about microbes or microorganisms, what is are those the same thing? Are they different things I don't even actually know.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 3:20
totally the same thing. I feel like microbe is a little bit more colloquial. So we can say my email address is actually microbe. microbe is another word for micro organism just means something that's really, really tiny.

Stuart Carlton 3:35
Okay, well, we'll go with microbe because I'm a man of the people if nothing else. And so these are found everywhere, right? I mean, just just like just no matter where you are, you're surrounded by microbes.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 3:46
Pretty much everywhere from the atmosphere all the way down to the below the sea floor. We see them in the most unusual, most unlikely places, we find them everywhere.

Stuart Carlton 3:59
Really, all right, well hang on robbing attention. What's an example of like a really unusual place where I might find a microbe,

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 4:06
I'm so deep within the Earth's crust, in space. In clouds, we see them all sorts of places where you wouldn't expect necessarily to be Earth's crust. Oh, all sorts of geological processes and time and they there. Yeah, those guys are crazy. They don't require a whole lot. They grow really slowly. There aren't a ton of them, but they're, they're

Stuart Carlton 4:34
like the opposite of my kids. In every way, okay. But but so a lot of your work is within microbes in like Michigan in the food chain, or foodweb and how they go right. So what's the basic of basics of the story? They're like, how do microbes contribute to the food chain or the food web? Alright, hold on, sorry. Food Chain or food web? What am I supposed to say to not sound like an

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 4:57
ah, yeah, so we call it a food web because it's all all tied together in different ways things go in different directions, both directions, it's a lot more complicated than just a chain from one to the next, gotcha

Stuart Carlton 5:09
foodweb. So, so I'm guessing they serve as like the base of the food web or the center of the food web,

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 5:17
kind of. So we think of the base even on on land, we think of the base as things that photosynthesize green plants, right? You don't have green plants growing in the Great Lakes. But you do have tiny, tiny green plants. So these phytoplankton, and they're the ones that fix carbon dioxide, the same way that trees and leaves and grass do plants do. So these are the organisms that kind of, I think of as as the base of the foodweb. And they're really important in all sorts of aquatic environments. And then they turn the carbon that comes from carbon dioxide in the atmosphere into carbon that's usable for other things. And the next thing that uses that carbon is bacteria. So bacteria that can use carbon that's produced by photosynthetic microbes. And then that becomes available to lots of other things. And then to the salmon and then the big fish that everybody else is interested in.

Stuart Carlton 6:19
The stuff that you can see, I think, being able to see

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 6:22
megafauna.

Carolyn Foley 6:24
Well, I feel the need to take a moment to say I'm somewhere in the middle like aquatic invertebrates, macro invertebrates. That's where I like to live in. I have the same issue where people are like, yeah, it's just fish food.

Stuart Carlton 6:36
So macro invertebrates are vertebrates, you can see but they still don't have a spine. Right? Correct. Yeah, if you don't have a spine, we just don't care. I mean, actually, I'm from Louisiana. So I There are many things with spines we like because we can eat them are many things without some anyway. All right, good. So so so you're saying really, the whole dynamics of the food web are as a result of different microorganisms, but the phytoplankton which I guess are plants, or plant like and then the bacteria that eat those, and then on up the chain and things like that, right. Okay. And they contribute a lot to the dynamics. Is that the same, like in other ecosystems as well, ocean saltwater? You know, are they important across the board? Or is it something special about the Great Lakes?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 7:17
No, they're important in all aquatic environments, but they're so a couple of things are different between the Great Lakes and any other aquatic environment you might look at. One is the exact identity of those organisms. So which ones they are there's a lot of similarities between those organisms, but they differ from system to system. And the other is the relative abundance and the roles that they play. So in the Great Lakes, so in Lake Michigan, specifically, which is what I study a lot, we've seen these big changes happen. Over the course of the last decade or so, when the muscles that have that feed on the phytoplankton have consumed so much of the phytoplankton, that they actually don't grow in the abundance that they used to. And that is creates all sorts of crazy dynamics and changes in carbon use in the lake. So that's really different from from saving open ocean or lake Michigan is now now resembles the open ocean a lot more because it doesn't have as much carbon that's fixed by photosynthetic organisms as it used to it used to be a lot more nutrient rich. And now it's, we call it oligotrophic. So low nutrient.

Carolyn Foley 8:31
What about light penetration to because you're saying that they're fixing energy from the sun? The fact that the muscles have completely cleaned up the water column and the light can penetrate deeper, does that affect the community that's there or anything like

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 8:44
that? Yeah. But so yes, there are still photosynthetic organisms, and they can so if you go into the open ocean light can penetrate for hundreds of meters, right. So they're still photosynthetic organisms, but they're not blooming the way they used to. So there's not this huge, big burst of phytoplankton that used to happen every year annually. And so the the amount of photosynthetic synthesis that occurs is actually less and that big. phytoplankton bloom used to drive a lot of the carbon dynamics and so it still happens, but on a lower like baseline scale than this big event that used to happen annually.

Stuart Carlton 9:29
Okay, so and that's because just to be clear, for folks who are listening, that's because of the invasive mussels that are spread throughout the area. And so the water is much cleaner. Now he's speaking with a fish ecologist. I won't say who, but he, he thinks that the lakes are too clean now as a result of this, and now, I think this is probably why would you, I'm not gonna ask you to characterize whether or not they're too clean but but that you're saying the dynamics have changed as a result, and so without those big annual bursts, does that mean there's just less full of activity Because that means there's less food available. Is that kind of?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 10:02
Yes, exactly. So that carbon that so phytoplankton can take from the atmosphere and bring into the leak feeds the next level of organisms. And so that carbon feeds the bacteria. We call them heterotrophic is a opposite kind of, of photosynthetic. They're the ones that eat carbon, the way that we do eat, we eat sugars, they eat sugars, and all sorts of other forms of carbon. And so without that food, they don't have they can't provide that to the rest of the foodweb within the lake. So it shifted everything.

Carolyn Foley 10:41
Is there anything else that they can feed on? Or do they like? Is there anything else say something that happens to be in the lake because of large humans who have put it there? I'm not not saying we should put it out there. But is there anything else that they can sort of switch to?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 10:57
Definitely yeah. So that's, that's actually, one aspect of our project that we've been working on for the last couple of years is looking at how they have changed to using using carbon that's produced by phytoplankton. So carbon that's produced in place, versus carbon that comes in from outside. And that cart, there's lots of carbon that comes in also from other sources, like rivers, they all the tributaries that feed into the lake wastewater treatment, I have a lot of a big project looking at wastewater treatment plants and their impact on the lake. And so there's all sorts of sources of carbon inputs that come from outside the lake. And it used to be that the carbon that was produced inside the lake was a more important source of carbon for the lake foodweb. And now it seems like carbon that's coming in from outside plays a bigger role.

Stuart Carlton 11:52
So like, so now they're getting we'll call it factory carbon, as opposed to the organic, local, homegrown carbon. Right, right. Is there a difference with this factory carbon, you know, sort of biologically? Or is it the same kind of stuff? And all's well, that ends? Well,

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 12:08
no, it's different stuff. It's there. And there's some organisms that we think of as generalists, micro organisms, microbes that can use any sort of carbon, it doesn't matter what the form is. And there's some organisms that are specialists. So they're real pros, at processing the form of carbon that's produced by photosynthetic bacteria, photosynthetic organisms, bacteria, and algae and other of zooplankton. And there's, there's carbon, that there's some microbes that can only process a certain kind. So yeah, so we're looking at the shifts in those like which organisms are, are become how the populations of bacteria are changing in response to the change in carbon.

Stuart Carlton 12:55
Gotcha. So the structure of the whole ecosystem is changing, the communities of bacteria will change over time, because of just competitive advantage of different types of bacteria.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 13:03
Yeah, so some are changing, and some are staying the same. Some, there's some bacteria that are like, Hey, we don't care, it doesn't matter, we'll use that form of carbon. But it's good changes. And, and there's also a gradient, so stuff that's coming in from, from outside the lake, the ones that are closer to to the, like nearshore organisms, ones that are closer to that input are going to use the stuff that's really easy to use the really delicious carbon, they're going to eat that all first. And so as it moves off shore, the ones that are getting the rest tend to be the ones that are they're getting the drugs, or whatever's left, or they may be harder to metabolize, it may be more complex organic matter.

Stuart Carlton 13:47
So I'm seeing two things to sort of themes based on what we're talking about in terms of I guess, I'll call it changing inputs into the microbiome, and boy, that may be wrong. But we'll run with it, and you'll tell me if it's wrong. And so the carbon that used to be you know, and these are because of human actions, right. And so the invasive species are coming, specifically the muscles and are cleaning up the water dramatically, resulting in you know, changes in terms of how photosynthesis works, and how much lights available or whatever. But then at the same time, there are the the extra inputs coming in, in the forms of various types of pollution, right? And so that's changing, you know, to some extent, the structure of what bacteria are there, or what they're feeding on. And so all of this is relatively recent in terms of ecological timescales, right, this is the last, I don't know, 50 years. What happens spin this forward for us? So in maybe non ecological time, because ecological time we're all dead. But but like in another 30? Like, how does this change over time if these two sort of factors, the cleaner water because of invasive species, with all of the pollutant polluting inputs, like what happens long term with that?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 14:55
Oh, that's an interesting question. I think microbes one thing that we know for assures that microbes are really adaptable, they, they, they're not going to care for the most part, like overall the entire community, they're not going to care. And so the total community, I mean, we're still gonna have lots of bacteria, their roles may shift slightly. And and one thing that I do want to to comment on what you said is that it's important to think that it's not all pollution that's coming in, like some of it is like, just stuff from rivers, like a very, like humic material stuff from leaves and tree, like all that stuff that washes off, and that's rich and carbon, right. So. So I think the there's going to be overall shifts in the composition, the total composition of the community, but they're still going to be doing their jobs and processing. You're making a living by processing carbon.

Carolyn Foley 15:51
So we can make we can make T shirts that say, bacteria here your bacteria don't care or something like that.

Stuart Carlton 15:59
Was there a bacteria that rhymes with bleep though, anyway?

Carolyn Foley 16:04
Well, okay, so while I'm, while I make a bad joke, and take over asking questions, so how do you actually collect these organisms? Like, what do you do? Or what do your students do when you guys are out and trying to learn about what the community looks like?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 16:20
Yeah, that's a good question. So we, they're really hard to see, right? Because they're teeny tiny can't see them with your eye by definition, that's what makes them microbe. So what we do is we collect them, and we concentrate them. And we do that on a filter. So filters, so this becomes really easy for aquatic bacteria a little more complicated for bacteria that live in this sediment, which we also study. So in the water will filter water through a filter that has point 0.2 micron size pores, and so that the average bacteria is about one micron, so they can't pass through the holes, the water does. And they all get stuck on the filter. And from that filter, we can extract nucleic acids, so we can look at their DNA, their RNA, and that's what tells us who they are. And that's what tells us what they're doing. So it's not unlike the current test for the Coronavirus. They'll take a swab and we actually be used a lot of the same techniques. They'll take a swab and look for the Coronavirus is an RNA virus so they look for the RNA and identify it based on its nucleic acid signature. And so that's what we're doing with these great lakes bacteria is looking at their nucleic acid signature to figure out who they are and what kind of things they might be able to do.

Stuart Carlton 17:46
That's so relieving. I envision graduate students like it with microscopes, and I felt so bad for them. Okay.

Carolyn Foley 17:56
I was just gonna say a micron is about the width of a penny or so. Right? Like roughly.

Stuart Carlton 18:03
The thickness you mean or

Carolyn Foley 18:06
less? Yeah, my bad. Yeah,

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 18:07
not with Yeah, maybe a little less even. Right? Yeah, uh, maybe like a 10th of that.

Carolyn Foley 18:14
And then you're talking about filters that are like a fraction of them. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Carlton 18:19
So for Carolyn, one micro meter is point 000000001 kilometers. So really small filters. And then you basically you filter them out, and you run them into the magical DNA machine, RNA machine, I guess. And it tells you like, DNA machine, and it gives you like, the different percentages of different types or whatever. Yeah, I guess you have to infer that using statistical analysis or whatever.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 18:44
Well, so what happens is there's to just identify bacteria, there's happens to be one gene that's really, really highly conserved. So actually, every organism every form of life on Earth has this gene has a variation of this gene. But it's an it's integral to just life to making proteins. So every bacteria has has this. And it's so highly conserved in bacteria, that any small change within the sequence of that gene means that it's just distinct from another organism. So we've looked at that specific gene, and we compare them to each other.

Stuart Carlton 19:25
So when you say conserved you mean? It's like consistent across organisms, but you can it's almost like a fingerprint. It's like, a slight variation means it is this species versus that species or whatever. Right,

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 19:37
right. Yeah, species is a tough one for bacteria, but we won't go there. But yeah, so so it means that there are distinct organisms, if so, we go by this rule of thumb if if, if organisms have this gene and it's at least 97%, similar to between them We say that they're probably not different organisms. So if it's 9798 99 100%, similar, we say they're probably either the same organism or really, really close relatives. But if it's less than 97%, we say it's probably a different organism. And we compare it to a database that has tons of these sequences. And so we map these back to the database, and we say, Oh, this one is 99%, similar to this one. So they're probably that one goes here. And that one goes here. And we categorize them kind of like, you know, the first biologists categorized any sorts of life. But we do this at a molecular level.

Stuart Carlton 20:40
And there's 97%. Again, that's the magic number. A lot of my research has been on climate science consensus, and that 97% Number crops up periodically. So it's totally arbitrary. No, it's meaningful in a deep way that you just haven't yet cracked. So open your mind, Rachel, and you'll see. Anyway, great. So you also do research on I was looking at your web page, and also do some research on things like antibiotics. What is that? Can you give us like a high level overview of your work on antibiotics and microorganisms?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 21:11
Sure. So we're, most of the work I've done has been specifically related to antibiotic resistance. And in the context of the Great Lakes, we've done a good bit of work, looking at how organisms that are introduced into the lake from wastewater treatment plants. So there's, you know, if you look at Lake Michigan, there's about 100 wastewater treatment plants that discharged their treated effluent into Lake Michigan. And within that, that treat so that treated effluent it's clean, they've removed nitrogen, they've made a lot of nitrogen, they've removed pathogens, they've, they've treated it, but it still has some organisms, and some of those organisms are viable. And some organisms have genes that encode things like antibiotic resistance. But it also some of that effluent also has chemicals that aren't removed through any wastewater treatment process. And some of that is, is antibiotics. So we've done some work, looking at how the introduction of both those chemicals and those organisms into the lake influences the microbial communities within the lake. And we've looked for antibiotic resistance genes in organisms that are really similar to those found in wastewater, and we find this natural gradient sort of maybe not natural, always find this gradient, that close to the wastewater treatment plant. And we can find a signature of these organisms and these processes in the sediment. And as you go farther out into the middle of the lake, you see fewer and fewer of those.

Carolyn Foley 22:42
And that's because they're being exposed to the drugs that are passing through the wastewater treatment plant. And they're just sort of like, because they they're really adaptable, they just sort of figure it out is that

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 22:53
it's a combination of that and the exposure to the, to the chemicals themselves, and also just having those genes. So typically, antibiotic resistance genes aren't encoded within a microbes, genome, they're on these mobile elements that can move around really easily. And that's why Antibiotic resistance is such a problem because it spreads, they can exchange genes really quickly with each other. And so we see a little bit of of the same organisms with the the antibiotic resistance genes, but then we see the same genes moving into other organisms, and they just get that by sharing. But there's also natural antibiotic, anti microbials. So organisms will produce antibiotics as a way to compete with their neighbors is a way to, to communicate with their neighbors and low doses. They're not actually meant to kill each other. They're a form of communication. And so there's this whole interplay of natural antimicrobial communication and cooperation and competition, and the input from people and how that that kind of influences whole community structure.

Stuart Carlton 24:00
One thing I've heard a lot today is about how adaptable the microbes are, and things like that, and how you know, there's all these different things, but they're adapting to the antibiotics or to the whatever. So, does that mean that thinking bigger with all I care about is the salmon? I'm not really I've never even seen a salmon. But But, but so if I as a person, like if I if the grocery store doesn't have any corn right now, the grocery store of anything, right, so I can eat maybe beans, and the overall effect is that, you know, there are certain effects but not that big of an effect. Or maybe I have pizza next week or whatever. And like, as long as I'm substituting out different food sources, my overall life isn't changing that much. Right? So with all these changes that are happening or not happening on the bacterial level, or the out on the food web, is that not you know, are the effects not that great at this point, because they're just substituting where they're getting their carbon from similar broadly analogous, I guess to how I might buy different groceries depending on what's in stock.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 24:56
Yeah, so you know if that could very well be we don't Really no. And it kind of depends on how many of those organisms are super adaptable, and how many that are important for other processes. So they're their main job is to eat carbon and make carbon available and other forms for other organisms. But there's also organisms and microbes that make vitamins that certain other organisms can't live without or so it kind of depends on on which ones are affected, and that could affect other.

Stuart Carlton 25:31
So my really broad conclusion, it's way too broad. There's a lot of unknowns.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 25:35
There are a lot of unknowns. But I think that analogy is really good. My, my postdoc likes to use this analogy of people who live in a vacation town, where in the winter, they will shovel snow, and you'll never never see them running an ice cream stand in the summer they run the ice cream stand, you'd never see them shoveling snow, but it doesn't mean that they don't do it's the same person doing two very different jobs, depending on the current situation and what's going on.

Carolyn Foley 26:06
You've convinced me I was already convinced. But microbes are extraordinarily important in the Great Lakes. What if there was one fact about micro organisms in the lakes that you wish people knew? What would it be?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 26:18
That they're not all bad? I think I think mostly people are getting that now. microbes get a very bad reputation, often deservingly. So I mean, they've put us all in our houses right now. But they they are so important to running the the ecosystem, and they're so essential to all the life within the lakes, that without them, it would be totally different. And I don't think life would be as it as it is.

Stuart Carlton 26:52
And we could I think just talk about this for hours. But really, the reason we ask you here is to ask about sandwiches. So you live in Chicago, great eaten city, right? Or at least in the Chicago suburbs. But I have a question for you. And that is this. If you could choose to have either a great donut for breakfast or a great sandwich for lunch. Which one of those two would you choose? You could only choose one.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 27:13
See, I feel like when life is normal, and I'm going into work, I make that choice on a regular basis because I'm on my way to UIC walking from the L. I passed a really good donut shop and I also passed the sandwich shop. And sometimes I decide and I often get a donut. They know me there.

Stuart Carlton 27:33
There we go. That's what economists call a revealed preference.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 27:38
I tell them I tell them there's worse places to be irregular within a donut shop. But I do like my donut.

Stuart Carlton 27:46
So now you got to spill the beans on what donut shop next time I'm in Chicago should I go to go to be your specific one. But you know, like, is this a chain or a specific place? I need to go?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 27:56
Um, I think it's I think it's what there's only one or two. It's called Dubard eight. Do right donuts. It's right by the Morgan l green line. And they have they have three vegan donut options. So I'm vegan. And that means

Stuart Carlton 28:13
well, there we go. So what what about a donut is not vegan normally. Yay. Yes. Oh, they have eggs? Yep. Yeah, they have eggs. I was like put yeast is cool for vegans are you eat? Oh, yeah. So Oh, microorganisms.

Complicated I thought, well, you know what, we'll just invite you back on to talk about that at another point. For now, is there a place? Is there a place where people can go to if they want to learn more about your work like a website or a social media feed or something like that?

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 28:52
Sure. correctly.lab.uic.edu is my website.

Stuart Carlton 28:56
There we go. And we'll put a link to that in the show notes and some other key terms as well. And you can see those show notes. If you go to www dot teach me about the Great lakes.com. Or if you're listening to this on your phone, just look down at your phone and the show notes. So they're probably and if they aren't. Get an email or get a different podcast thing. Great. Well, Dr. Rachel Paretsky, thank you so much for coming on and teaching us about the Great Lakes.

Dr. Rachel Poretsky 29:25
Thanks for having me.

Stuart Carlton 29:38
Well, that was really cool. Carolyn. I didn't know a lot about microbes. I mean, I still don't know a lot, I guess. But I know more than I did. And that's awesome.

Carolyn Foley 29:44
Yeah, it was really great. And really interesting to talk about the potentially more positive sides and

Stuart Carlton 29:50
microbes. Yeah, microbes feed us indirectly. I think that's much better than thinking about the ways in which they have me currently trapped inside with my kids, while like Hurry to work. It's exactly. Yeah. So anything specific you learn today that you would like to share?

Carolyn Foley 30:07
So I think the thing that struck me the most was that the microbes are actually using antibiotic signals to talk to each other in low doses. Like when she said, they're using antibiotics to communicate with each other. I thought, so how? Hey, bud, how's it going have this thing that's gonna hurt you, you know, like, but that was really interesting.

Stuart Carlton 30:29
I agree. That is fascinating. And, for me, I think the most important thing that I learned in all honesty, is that microbes are really adaptable. And maybe that means that some sort of human caused stresses, okay. Or maybe it doesn't, we don't know. But there's a whole lot of questions to answer. And I think that that's good. If I were me giving the talk, I would then end that with, which is why you need to fund me to do more research. But in this case, we need to find Rachael and people like her to do more research to try to answer those questions,

Carolyn Foley 31:01
right. And it's kind of nice to have a little bit of hope that, you know, there's something that will adapt and try to help keep supporting things that we're used to.

Stuart Carlton 31:10
So yeah, I agree. It's a different form of resilience is not one that I think about a lot, but maybe I should. Cool. Well, Carolyn, where can people go more to find out about our programs since you're here? I'll make you remember the social media stuff?

Carolyn Foley 31:22
Yes, we're on Twitter and Facebook Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. You can also visit our website i s i Sea grant.org. And when they say see they mean s EA not the letter. See?

Stuart Carlton 31:35
There it is. You can follow the show at Teach Great Lakes on Twitter tweet at us. I should do more of that kind of stuff, but I don't maybe next time. In the meantime, everybody take care hope so wash your hands. And thanks for learning about the Great Lakes bat did did he did he did did he did he did