Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript, we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes teach me about the Great Lakes John, welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes and exactly twice monthly podcast in which I A Great Lakes novice, get people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. I'm joined today by the stars teach me about the Great Lakes Megan Gunn. Megan, what's up?

Megan Gunn 0:20
Nothing much, Stuart. How are you doing?

Stuart Carlton 0:21
I'm fine. I'm fired up. i It's iced coffee season and my iced coffee is a little more potent than my black my regular coffee. And so I've got extra vigor, which I think is the one thing I needed in life is extra vigor. So I'm super fired up. Awesome. Yeah, but I'm actually more fired up because we're gonna do a draft today. But before we get to the draft, there's actually a great lakes factoid that I want to share. So let's just go right to that if I can find the thing. There's a thing you ready? Let's do it. It's a great lakes factoid, a Great Lakes factoid, it's a great factoid about the Great Lakes chapter. Today's Great Lakes factoid is when I looked up in preparing for today's draft, and in this, you know, there's a lot of concern in the Great Lakes about invasive species, right? It's a really big deal in this region. And so today's Great Lakes factoid is about the invasive zebra mussel, which as everybody knows, is dry center polymorpha, of course. And it was first discovered in the Great Lakes region in Lake St. Clair, which everybody knows where that is in June of 1988. So we are now what does that mean? We are like for almost 40 years, 35 years into dealing with the muscle invasion. So that's a factoid, Megan,

Megan Gunn 1:39
I like it. And I will also say I love the jingles. I think they're fantastic. I don't know if anybody else enjoys them as much as I do.

Stuart Carlton 1:46
I think only one person enjoys them as much as you do. And that's me, but I thought the pandemic's over the jingles are going to be lesser. Anyway, but so the reason I mentioned that is because today we're going to be drafting aquatic invasive species prevention techniques, technologies, ideas, whatever, you know, we leave a wide open because it's more fun that way, but we're going to be drafting those. And so what I'm going to do is we actually have this is the biggest is this, right? Yeah, the biggest teach me about the Great Lakes in teach me about the Great Lakes history, and that's not even counting Carolyn's cat. And so. So we're gonna introduce people in the order that they will be picking the drafts. It's an all star crew of new and returning guests. And so I'm very excited. And so rather than play more goofy songs, let's just jump right into it. And so the first pick, don't pick yet. We're going to introduce the man but the first pick is going to be Greg hits Roth, Greg, a return guest is an outreach specialist with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant and the Illinois natural history survey, Greg, how's it going, man?

Greg Hitzroth 2:44
Oh, it's going great. I have my decaf coffee. So I'm on the other spectrum of you. Tony down for the afternoon.

Stuart Carlton 2:54
That sounds good. Maybe that's why you're so tall. You don't have caffeine suppressing it as much I take. Second up is Tim Campbell, aquatic invasive species specialist with Wisconsin secret Tim, how's it going?

Tim Campbell 3:08
It's going well Stuart, excited to be a part of the draft all decked out my stuff aquatic hitchhikers attire to get a good team.

Stuart Carlton 3:16
Look at that. I'm, that's good. A good team does have a good uniform. Third pick will be Megan gone. But Megan, we already know how you're doing. So we're gonna keep moving. Or

Megan Gunn 3:25
what you don't know is that aquatic invasives are near and dear to my heart because I spent seven years managing a lab that focused on native and invasive species. So this I'm really excited for today. Awesome.

Stuart Carlton 3:37
Well, I love your right and I apologize. I did not know that. I didn't know how near and dear they were to your heart. And now I do so I feel I feel warmer. Next up is Olivia Morissette he is the he is division chief aquatic invasive species Division Chief for the Quebec Ministry of Forestry Wildlife and Parks over there in Quebec City. Olivia, how are you this afternoon?

Olivier Morrisette 3:58
Hi, Stuart. I'm fine. I hope you are hearing me hearing me. Okay here, just downstream of the Great Lakes in Quebec City.

Stuart Carlton 4:06
We're excited to have you on thank you for coming. And then picking fifth out of six is Carolyn Foley Illinois-Indiana, Sea Grant, Research Coordinator. Carolyn, how's it

Carolyn Foley 4:16
going? It's going well, and thanks for having me on.

Stuart Carlton 4:21
You're welcome. And I of course, as the gracious host, we'll be picking last. And I think of the crew on here. I have the least expertise about aquatic invasive species, or at least I did before this morning. We'll see how it went. Alright, Greg, why don't you kick it off for us.

Greg Hitzroth 4:38
All right, so I love a good collaboration. And I think the first thing I think about when I think about prevention of A is or aquatic invasive species and the Great Lakes is the Great Lakes fishery Commission and the 1954 Convention on Great Lakes fishery. So it was the first attempt to have a multi state multi Nash In all management of sea lamprey, which was introduced through the enhancement of the well on Canal. And so it was a huge effort by national effort to control sea lamprey to help larger fishery in the Great Lakes. And so I think it falls into prevention because it is also prevented of management efforts came out of this lakes fishery commission. So that's my first

Stuart Carlton 5:25
pick the 1954 Convention on Great Lakes fishery. It's almost like you're going back to first principles with this one. I, I like it. Yeah.

Greg Hitzroth 5:32
It's gonna be on the first deck. So I had a historical

Stuart Carlton 5:37
a classic first round pick, though. Yeah, I think it is. That's really excellent. Oh, wonderful. 1954 Convention on Great Lakes fisheries. And you can find a link to that in our show notes. And that is teach me about the great lakes.com/ 29 Because this is episode 29. Yeah.

Carolyn Foley 5:53
And they're still meeting the Great Lakes fishery commission meets every year. I think they're actually doing some virtual meetings next week, toward the end of March 2021, to talk about what's going to happen this year and things like that. So

Stuart Carlton 6:04
another way to phrase that is they did some great meetings last week, and I really learned a lot about invasive species on those so the behind the scenes, we record these in advance. Great Tim, second pick in the draft, man lot, a lot of things still up on the board.

Tim Campbell 6:24
A lot of things still up on the board, but I don't think I can do wearing my stuff quite okay checkers had grabbed my stop aquatic hitchhikers beverage koozie and Knoppix off aquatic hitchhikers the national aquatic invasive species outreach brand. It was created by the Aquatic Nuisance Species Task Force in 2002. With help from Sea Grant and a few other partners nationally, and organizations across the country use this to reach out to voters to help educate them and raise awareness about aquatic invasive species. And what I really like about it is that the brand is so powerful that even people that haven't been or haven't seen it before, still have some understanding of what it means they know that they're supposed to take action to prevent the spread of invasive species. So because this has been used for so long and across the country, I feel like it's a really valuable contributor to my team and should really help help us out. Prevention.

Stuart Carlton 7:16
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I mean, you're starting off with a star already. Right? That's the thing is, if you're gonna do it, you might as well start with the big guns and stop aquatic hitchhiker Sure. It's that if nothing else, so where did it start exactly? Like do you know what the genesis of it?

Tim Campbell 7:31
I know 2002 With the Aquatic Nuisance Species Task Force and Sea Grant. I know Doug Jensen with Minnesota Sea Grant had a lot of influence in it. And I think there was also like a branding contractor that also helped out with it.

Stuart Carlton 7:45
So yeah, so we're 20 years of that almost just to do a big celebration next year.

Tim Campbell 7:50
To celebrate it looks like the Aquatic Nuisance Species Task Force put out an RFP to help evaluate it to see what kind of impacts it had. So hopefully as a, like, 22 year anniversary, yeah, we'll be able to release that report.

Stuart Carlton 8:03
I remember seeing that RFP actually.

Carolyn Foley 8:06
So we're recording this on St. Patrick's Day and I'm wearing a Paddy's Pub shirt. I don't know if anybody else watches It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia but there's because I have seen a lot of stuff aquatic hitchhiker stuff on Billboard's I need to say this for anybody in the crowd. I bought a billboard so and if you don't watch It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia that that doesn't make any sense. All right.

Stuart Carlton 8:28
That's good. Congrats on your billboard. And you're right, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Carolyn Foley 8:34
You can see them like going up and down. I 65 and stuff like that. Yes, yes.

Stuart Carlton 8:37
Anytime I see. See grant related billboard. That's the main one you see, but I do get excited. You know, it's cool to see your stuff up on a billboard, man. Yeah, I love it. Megan, what do you have in the first round? On the

Megan Gunn 8:49
same lines of catchy slogans, I'm gonna go with BA hero transport zero. It's, it's great. It talks about all the things that we want people to do, right? We don't want you to transport anything from whatever body of water that you're in. This is very proud of whatever body of water that you're in to a new body of water because you don't know what's hitchhiking. You just you just have no idea so you're here off transport zero.

Stuart Carlton 9:12
Yeah, be a hero transport zero. So what does that mean exactly? Be a Hero transport zero.

Megan Gunn 9:19
To me, go ahead Greg.

Greg Hitzroth 9:21
No, I'm all yours.

Megan Gunn 9:24
I was gonna say to me it means that you can you can help in this effort by doing what you can to not transport these invasive species. So you can be a hero you can wear a cape and not do the bad things

Stuart Carlton 9:38
Excellent. And for those interested in more information on that they can go to the website I screwed it up last time though because it is not what I thought it was Greg what's the be a hero website

Greg Hitzroth 9:48
is transport zero dot for there it

Stuart Carlton 9:51
is not be a hero.org which I remember was a very worthy cause but a different very worthy I thought it was like child abduction or something? Yeah, be a hero.org is, ya know, it's anti child trafficking, which I mean, also very important. Go to both of these is what you should do. Great. All right, well, we're really running on our team here. A lot of good things still on the board, though. I'm including every single one of my picks. So I'm fired up. I'm gonna have a lot of choice. I think Olivia though your first pick?

Olivier Morrisette 10:26
Yes, I think I think I will pick the creativity of partners to install the cleaning stations and, and a lot of them don't have really a good budget, but they are really creative to install cleaning station and technology to help people clean their boats. So and that's, that's the key to compliance to our access to those cleaning stations.

Stuart Carlton 10:49
That's excellent.

Carolyn Foley 10:51
My pick wasn't creativity, but mine was going to be cleaning station. So mine was totally just stolen.

Stuart Carlton 10:57
Yeah, mine was sniped, too. That was Yeah. Although mine was called and I wrote this on my notes wash the crap. Same idea, cleaning stations. So why are cleaning station so important for invasive species prevention?

Olivier Morrisette 11:10
Yeah, for sure that those different species can can get stuck and get attached to those boats. So there is an important step for every boaters and water body user to clean those boats to be sure not to down transport anything. So yeah, to be a hero.

Carolyn Foley 11:30
Exactly. And also to stop aquatics. Yes, yeah.

Stuart Carlton 11:34
thing is you can do both at the same time. Right? Right. These are not mutually exclusive. Activities. Alright, Carolyn, first round, what do you have for us?

Carolyn Foley 11:42
Well, I had cleaning stations. But that was taken. Um, I will say apps like the USGS app to report things, and I don't know, what the what's the equivalent in Canada

Stuart Carlton 11:53
lays up? No.

Olivier Morrisette 11:59
There's variability but in Ontario, you can use EDD maps.

Carolyn Foley 12:05
We can put links to those too. So if you actually see something that you suspect is an invasive species, you can report it quickly. And then different authorities can can be alerted.

Stuart Carlton 12:17
Hmm. That is cool. All right. Apps. Has anybody used the app to report an invasive species? No. Yeah. Kim has Yeah, you're such a, you're an invasive species. You said the front row of invasive species costume.

Tim Campbell 12:33
I think I reported a Gobi population once in a stream, lake Michigan for Lake Michigan tributary. And then I mostly just wanted to verify that I would also get the verification email since a lot of professionals will verify the findings. So I submitted an observation. The verification is yes, it works.

Stuart Carlton 12:52
Let's go there.

Olivier Morrisette 12:54
This is the same for me also, I'm very quickly applicator for a French app in Quebec, which call sound snail and also sometimes begun putting on some some siding and verified it myself. Yeah.

Megan Gunn 13:09
little checkmark you see in action. Yep. Yeah, that's good. That's

Stuart Carlton 13:12
important stuff. Important stuff. Good. Alright. So for me in the first round, what I'm going to pick is the idea of knowledge, but not any knowledge, not any knowledge. So I'm a social scientist by trade, when I'm not moving papers from the left side of my desk to the right side of my desk. And so a common thing that you'll see, I think, when it comes to like behavior change, is this idea that like knowledge will, you know, if you give people knowledge, they will become better human beings, and they will change their behavior. And that's not always true, right? Knowledge doesn't make people magically better are able to overcome whatever the barriers are to change and things like that. But specific knowledge or knowledge in specific conditions can be really important. And that's like knowledge about how to do things. So I want to prevent invasive species, right. But do I know that steps to take that can be really important. Do I know like, oh, I want to wash my boat? Do I know how to do it? Do I know the right way to do it? And so that sort of specific knowledge has been shown in study after study with regards to environmental behavior that, you know, the domain specific knowledge on how to take the steps you want to take is really important. So in round one, I'm picking knowledge, but not just any knowledge. All right, that is the end of round one. It's a good start so far. If we had commercials, this is where I would insert a commercial.

Bonnie Willison 14:44
This is Bonnie in Sydney here from Wisconsin secrets introduced podcast. We're here for some commentary on this intense first round of drafts. So first from Greg, we have the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission. It's a really old strong program. It's got a big reputation as a PA warehouse for AAAs management started with sea lamprey, but they've been in this game for a long time. We've seen a lot of good science coming out of the commission. Next from Tim and Megan, we're seeing a Battle of the Brands. The stop aquatic hitchhikers outreach brand is used throughout the country via Hiro transport zero. From Meghan. That's really strong branding from Illinois Sea Grant and their partners can't go wrong with that.

Sydney Widell 15:26
Olivia swipe cleaning stations before Carolyn, that was pretty bold move. I liked this one. I think it offers like a lot of concrete actions people can take at a site, and it really gets you thinking about it while you're out like enjoying a place. I think this might be like an emotional pick on me. But why is it an emotional pick for you? Just because I like really think it's satisfying to scrub the mud off my boots? Like, is it going to prevent all as from spreading? Probably not, but it is really satisfying. So I'm gonna give this a huge Yes. Carolyn's picking the reporting apps for introductions. Some examples are like the Great Lakes early detection network app and the Midwest invasive species Information Network app, which we'll have linked in the show notes. I've heard that there's a big disconnect between seeing something new and like actually reporting it. And I think the reporting apps have a huge opportunity to really step into that gap and become dominant. This is the pic that not enough people are talking about. But I feel really confident in its ability to empower people to be more aware, I think we're going to be paying attention to this one, I don't think we should be sleeping on it.

Bonnie Willison 16:33
Stuart is representing all the social scientists out there by picking the right knowledge. Like what is the right knowledge that people really need to know to get them to change their behavior? I think this is a pretty ambitious one. Lots of people around the world are studying behavior change. There's a lot of research we need to do to get to the bottom of this one. All right.

Stuart Carlton 16:55
So first round is in the books one for the ages, I think it's fair to say. And so this is not a snake style draft. So we're going back to the top. And so Greg, with the second pick in the draft, what do you got? Second, nope. First pick of the second round. Come on, Stuart.

Greg Hitzroth 17:11
Yeah, yeah, get it right. Um, man, this is a tough one. But I went very broad and historic. And I wanted these little more concurrent this time. So I'm picking Terry Hallisey, one of our education specialists was Sea Grant, and not because of Terry, but because of the work that she does, which is working with educators and like working in classrooms. So actually bringing invasive species information to teachers to take the kids which can take that information to their parents. And it's a really great way to get kids involved in invasive species action and like, create a new generation of awareness and action in the Great Lakes. And so I think that's a very important aspect of invasive species prevention is sowing the seed early of invasive species prevention. So Terry Halsey, also a Helen damskie. Right. She's retired now, but like what a force?

Stuart Carlton 18:09
I thought at first you were just picking Terry, but but I think it'd be a good pick. It's kind of a, but it's, it's sowing the seed early. It's such a poetic way of putting it of invasive species prevention.

Tim Campbell 18:20
I think what probably falls within Greg's pic might be the Great Lakes secret network aquatic invasive species attack packs, the K through 12 education, I guess Grab and Go packs that have aquatic invasive species specimens and lesson plans that I know you can check out through the Wisconsin water library. But I think we're also available through why can I Seagull

Stuart Carlton 18:43
Seagull the Center for Great Lakes literacy? Yeah. So tell me about I don't actually know anything about these so teachers can check these out attack packs. And automatically they feel cool, because it's got such a cool name, but But it sounds like you know, curriculum in a box type thing. Yep,

Tim Campbell 18:57
curriculum in a box in a flash drive and online. Oh, awesome. But there's the lesson plans all I guess correspond to Science Education Standards. And yeah, I feel like I should have more insightful things to say about it than that. But they are a lot of fun for anyone that's ever checked them out. I use them all of the time for outreach events. People love the specimens and some of the activities are really good. A lot of them can be done in 1520 minutes.

Stuart Carlton 19:24
Oh, great. I'm actually this homeschooling era. You know, it might be worth parents looking out and looking at as well, especially for the online materials. That's wonderful. Alright, Tim, pick two.

Tim Campbell 19:35
So I think I went with a well established name in the first round of stuff aquatic hitchhiker. So I think I want to go with a high risk, hopefully high reward pick for the second round. And I'm going to, I guess call my picks up the spine e.com. I don't know if you've seen that video at stop the spine. u.com. But I think generally it kind of covers art and science collaborations. I work with us Social scientist, Dr. Bradshaw at UW Madison, we put together a video on educating people about spiny water fleas and things that they can do to prevent their spread. But we were really creative. I think that's a kind of like way to put it, and how we presented the topic. And we've been learning a lot from that video, we published a paper in the Journal of Extension about promotion for it. It's taught us a few other things about kind of invasive species metaphors that spun off into some different work. But I think why this could be really important is that, you know, I think we've been communicating to the same voters in some pretty consistent ways for the past 20 years. And so if we're going to start getting that last 10% of voters to change their behaviors, they might not be responding to the same things we've been doing for the past 20 years. So we might need new creative approaches to reach the people that are already listening. So whether it's crazy videos, like stop this finding.com You know, other videos, creative storytelling, things like that, I think, investing some more resources there could really help close the gap and get us from, you know, 90% 95 for 99% of voters seeking action.

Megan Gunn 21:09
I love that, especially because, I mean, we kind of know, the language that we've been using for the last one years hasn't been resonating with them. Because if it had it would be at 100 already. And so taking that next step to make a change.

Stuart Carlton 21:23
And, Tim, this is actually something that you and I and some others are going to work on in soon, hopefully, remind me to ask you about that funny. But do we? Do we have an idea? about like, what percent of voters it is that that are, you know, fairly responsive to this message? Is it as high as 90%? Or is it lower?

Tim Campbell 21:40
It ranges from state to state, we do a regular survey in Wisconsin of voters, and we just completed the third one in the past 10 years. And so that's about 90% of Wisconsin voters are aware of the AI s regulations and self reported take action. I'm sure it's not quite that high. But that's what we have in Wisconsin, and then it kind of varies from state to state, I think, probably depending on the funding that your program has to implement different programs. Yeah.

Megan Gunn 22:11
My next question related to that is, Are are you reaching the voters that are going out regularly? Or is it or I mean, is it the voters that just kind of go and recreate sometimes that, that you reach? Like, who? Who was the target audience? I guess is my question

Tim Campbell 22:29
we'd like to be well with, I think our current AI is outreach efforts, especially in Wisconsin with our Clean Boats, Clean Waters, watercraft inspection programs, you know, we're inspecting a lot of the same places, you know, investing 200 hours of summer to get to reach people with those landings. So you're probably reaching a lot of the same people that use that same body of water. But if there's no inspections present, we're probably not reaching them with a message. And so, you know, I think with some of these art science collaborations, we could be targeting infrequent voters that are unlikely to come across an inspector or, you know, a boater that boats someplace where there aren't, you know, inspectors or people there to reach out to them about invasive species.

Carolyn Foley 23:09
So and I wanted to ask a question of alleviate, do you have a sense in Ontario and Quebec, which, like how many people seem to be responsive, the way that Tim just said, you know, it might be as high as 90%. And

Olivier Morrisette 23:25
we don't have a formal estimation of them. But for, for the few, even though we are doing on lendings. And by talking to people, we were seeing that most of them are really aware of that. And I think they are practicing a certain level of spank, inspection and cleaning, but ya know, I don't have any numbers to tell for you about an estimation of that.

Stuart Carlton 24:00
Great, love it creative creativities collaborations and trying to get that last five to 10% of voters in Wisconsin, or maybe more. And if you haven't checked out the work that Tim does in social media and things like that, he does really good work. And he really is I think we're I think it's a real strength of his outreach stuff. And I'll be completely 100% Honest, as I remember, Tim and I were at somebody called Sigrun Academy together. And he talked a lot about how he's doing Facebook Lives and things like that at the time. And it really changed the way I think about extension just generally, that's legitimately true. Because I just hadn't integrated all of that stuff into my work and I still don't necessarily again, because my primary job right now is moving papers from one side of the desk to the other. But it in all honesty probably has a direct influence on why this show even exist. It's an indirect influence. I guess I'm why this show exists. So I recommend you check it out. And anytime you can incorporate creativity regardless go for people. Megan Gunn second pick second round.

Megan Gunn 24:59
So I'm going to expand on what you said Stewart about knowledge and giving specific steps. And one of the things I recommend, especially if there isn't a wash station and cleaning station at your boat ramp is disinfecting your boat and your equipment when you get home. So, I like to use bleach or use a lot of use a lot of bleach when I was in the research lab, because it is an effective way to kill anything else that is living and letting it sit for a while. And what we would do is spray equipment overnight, especially if we were going out the next day, spray it at the end of the day, let it sit and then it's dry and things are most likely dead. When you go out the next day.

Stuart Carlton 25:36
That's a total snipe. That was my other pick. Right? I've got another one in mind. But great minds think alike. So how much do you happen to know like so? Like, should people just pour straight bleach on their stuff? Or what? Oh

Megan Gunn 25:47
my god. I mean, you can but no that is that the recommendation? I go 10% bleach, sometimes a little bit more? Depending on how icky I think a body of water is. I may I may go a little bit more than 10% Just because you just never know. Yeah, but I mean 100% bleach is gonna kill everything.

Stuart Carlton 26:10
So 10% bleach is about 13 ounces of bleach per gallon of water. I did not translate that into metric. But we won't ask Carolyn to based on past experience, but you can do that. Canadian listeners.

Carolyn Foley 26:22
Thanks. But I will I wanted to say we can make a scale for Megan scale of achiness that you can make.

Stuart Carlton 26:35
Actually just realized the appropriate rejoinder is thanks to the metric system, it's not actually hard at all to calculate 10% Please just move a decimal point and get on with it. All right. Great. Yeah, yeah, we do need a scale of achiness. So this will be a future episode perhaps. Right? That sounds like a Halloween episode. No. Spooky scale of achiness. To Halloween. So we already got a plan for this one. Great. Olivia, second pick for you.

Olivier Morrisette 27:03
Yes. My second pick is thing that you can touch. And you want to give knowledge to people but sometimes you have to attract them to you to talk to them. So having a booth with things that are moving or people can touch there are literal magnet for for people. I was in 2019. And in October in Montreal at the International Conference on aquatic invasive species. And I think it was the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission. Well, some living sea lampreys and it was it was jaw dropping. And it's quite a feat for jawless fish to there was so many people around those lamprey and after that you have people around you, you can talk to them. And we had the same experience with plastic model of Asian tarps and spiny Murthy. And those are amazing to attract people and engage with them to talk about anything related to AI. Yes,

Carolyn Foley 28:02
it's partly cuz some of them look so bizarre, right? Like, like when you guys are talking about spiny water. They look like they're gonna do battle with you or something.

Greg Hitzroth 28:12
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the attack packs that Tim was talking about. We use some of those models that outreach and trade shows. And they like have made people do u turns to come back to our booth to talk about crayfish. Excellent, wonderful.

Stuart Carlton 28:27
Yeah. All right. Good. Second pick of those are well, the fifth pick of the second round, I guess I can pick for you, Carolyn, what do you

Carolyn Foley 28:36
so I'm gonna go a slightly different direction. And I'm going to say ballast water exchange. So when vessels that head out to the ocean, and then come into the Great Lakes and come down, that was the way that dry skin and muscles so zebra mussels, and now quagga mussels were likely introduced. And a variety of the other species we're talking about were all introduced that way too. They they took a ride across the Atlantic Ocean. And then you know, we can think about we talked about this in another episode that things from our ecosystem can go to places across the ocean to so there is one of the things they started to do to try to combat this is when the ships are out at sea, they mix their ballast water and in an attempt to kind of kill off anything that can't survive in saltwater. It's not 100% effective, but they think it has helped so and even if people are just thinking about it, I don't know others may have other thoughts on this but I think it was a big step in the right direction towards thinking about how to stop spreading.

Megan Gunn 29:47
So Carolyn, when you when you say mix, ballast water, what do you mean by mixing?

Carolyn Foley 29:55
So like they would, you know, potentially take on, take on water I'm in one freshwater area over in Europe or Eurasia or something like that, and then head out into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. And then they would switch the water out there so that any organisms that they brought with them from Eurasia or something like that would potentially be spewed out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean rather than riding all the way across. And then when they when they release water and or add, I don't know the proper term but and freight or things like that. If they released that water in another freshwater system, like Saginaw Bay, or something like that over the port of Indiana, they would potentially or the port up in Duluth or anything like that, they would potentially introduce new organisms that would be like, hey, yeah, sure. We'll live here. So

Tim Campbell 30:47
I think Tim was gonna say, I was hoping some of my fellow GIS specialists could support me on this one, but I think the line is that we haven't discovered a, like a new established ballast water invaders since 2006. And the bloody red shrimp. I think there's been a handful of discoveries of non native plankton species, I think in Lake Erie, too. Yeah, Greg. But they're cryptic species. So they've maybe been here a while. And people have been this identifying them for a while. And I don't know if they're established if so maybe people know more than me about those. But

Olivier Morrisette 31:26
and within lakes, also can can be can be a vector two. So there is also regulation to clean those those ballasts with some technology like like bleach or UV or there is a couple of mountain technology on those vessels that don't go out in the in the ocean, they just stay in freshwater. So you also have to clean those because you don't have access to saltwater to clean those boulders.

Carolyn Foley 31:50
Right. Right. So so there are some like, there are some ships that, like Olivia said, Stay within the Great Lakes. And they also have some technologies to try to treat what's in there. So they're not taking something from one spot to another unintentionally.

Stuart Carlton 32:06
Great. And then with the so ballast water exchange, do it, just do the ballast water exchange,

Carolyn Foley 32:12
treatment. Anything that you guys had left, Olivia, just leave it?

Stuart Carlton 32:17
That's right, related. Remotely ballast related, although he took a creativity first. So that's a lot of things are no for my final pixel. So mine, I do have a theme, like Tim putting together a team, right. And so my team though, we're gonna have more of a specialty. And that is we're going to be working on on like the manager and outreach side. Right. And so first we have knowledge, like what is the right type of knowledge, but for the second thing is eight of removing barriers. And by that I do not mean the electric barriers or all of that those barriers are important. But I mean, removing the barriers to appropriate, you know, to Pro Environmental behavior. So a lot of people want to do the right thing. They want to wash their boat, they want to exchange their ballast water, but in the context in which this is something they might do, you know, people are coming in from fishing law, they're in the water, they're tired. Maybe they know how to do it, maybe they don't there's a lot of potential barriers in between them. And the aim is prevention friendly behavior, right. And so the more of those barriers we can remove, the more likely it is that they are like that they will do the thing that we're hoping they do to prevent a yes, so that's things like having really good functioning cleaning stations, right. Making ballast water changes easy as possible, basically, making it so that people don't have to work that much to get the thing done, and then they're much more likely to do it. So removing barriers. Alright, and that. Let's see, we will now go to money to greater

Sydney Widell 33:55
Hey, it's Annie and Barney here back to debrief you after another really shocking round of picks. So first, we saw Greg pick the Great Lakes Sea Grant network education efforts, which is a win for sure. I think it's good too. So the Great Lakes seed early, get people thinking about it. Also, I love a good art science collaboration like Tim shows, we've got to be really creative and always try new methods of reaching people. For those people who haven't seen the staff the spiny video, you're in for a treat. Let me tell you that. From Meghan,

Bonnie Willison 34:28
we have bleach and chemical disinfection techniques. These are so important, as we've talked about New Zealand mud snail on our podcasts introduced and you need to disinfect your boots, waders and gear to prevent the spread of these tiny little invasive styles. And then Olivia comes in with specimens. And I think it definitely makes a difference to be able to see aquatic invasive species in person. And I'd like to give a shout out to the few lucky dead sea lamprey At were unknowingly preserved and now are toted around by AAS specialists all over the Great Lakes region. Also like the crayfish that are preserved in the attack packs, nothing can parallel handling specimens yourself.

Sydney Widell 35:15
Carolyn picks the ballast water exchange, which I think is huge. There was a huge fight to getting international treaties for ballast water regulation, and we're already seeing it pay off. And then lastly, removing barriers to environmental education is a really solid choice I really like I think, is helpful with like as prevention but also all sorts of other environmental challenges. I think it's ambitious, but it is an important player in stopping the spread of EIS.

Bonnie Willison 35:47
Now, I noticed one glaring mistake for this round, how could no one mention podcasts as an aquatic invasive species education tool? I mean, come on, seriously. So minus points for not mentioning podcasts. I mean, maybe it's implied because you're listening to this on a podcast giant oversight, right, specifically introduced from Wisconsin Sea Grant a podcast all about the Great Lakes, changing waters and introduce species find it wherever you find your podcasts.

Stuart Carlton 36:17
Now, so good. So two really strong rounds. Anybody else we can just do a quick lightning round, throw off anything that was left on your list you want to talk about briefly. We'll just go you know, one of the time, quick and quick and dirty. Greg, what you got?

Greg Hitzroth 36:31
Um, risk assessments. So looking at biological characteristics to see which species are likely to be invasive. So for has implications for trade. So like, what species are likely to be invasive that might be in trade, as well as which species are already here, they're likely to become invasive. And so I think risk assessments are a huge boon for policy.

Stuart Carlton 36:53
Yeah, risk assessments. Tim, anything else on your list? You can probe one or two, lightning round style?

Tim Campbell 36:58
Yes, I'll throw out signage at you know, not flashy, but signs are working even when we're not there. And voters in Wisconsin indicate that signage at the water access points are what are their most commonly used sources of information on aquatic invasive species and they prefer to get their information that way. So signage You mean

Stuart Carlton 37:16
like information on on species and what to look out for and stuff like that? Yep.

Tim Campbell 37:20
Information on such like the right behaviors to do how to do those things. Information on the species,

Stuart Carlton 37:25
great signage. Megan, anything else on your list?

Megan Gunn 37:29
Yes, I'm gonna go with two related to dumping. So on the recreation side, or if you if you collect fish for a hobby, and you get bored with the fish, don't just dump it in your local body of water, donate it to a school, their schools are always looking for fun stuff to educate their their classrooms, or teachers are always looking for fun things to educate their classrooms with and then your leftover bait, don't dump your leftover bait back into the body of water that you could just set finish fishing it and dump it in the trash.

Stuart Carlton 37:56
Trash the Rio. Olivier.

Olivier Morrisette 37:59
Yeah, well, it's like connection. So people care about things that they are connected to, or love. So I think giving free access to those nice places around the Great Lakes and Lawrence River, so just people to care enough for them to protect them.

Stuart Carlton 38:16
Wonderful. Carolyn

Carolyn Foley 38:18
taxonomists or people who can help identify like when a new thing shows up. I mean, you know, I have to go a little bit nerdy, um, but they Yeah, so when a new thing shows up, and you're like, Well, what the heck is this? And sometimes people know nothing about it. Someone who's super specialized and oh, that belongs somewhere else can help quickly identify things and

Stuart Carlton 38:38
tax items. That's excellent. Yeah. Alright. So the other couple of my lists were one up I lost it during a prompts is another like tool of social science, right? The idea of having a prompt at the place where you might do so just a reminder, because God knows I forget stuff. And everybody else says so prompt is one from like, the social science toolbox that I think that that we can, it's important to talk about other random things I had on there, like CRISPR techniques, this wigs me out so I don't want to pick it because I'm not qualified to actually assess it. But they're like inserting and changing up the genes in some places to try to like sterilize invasive species. I don't have an opinion on that. But it is a technique and it's, I mean, I have an opinion. It's like whoa, we can do crazy cool science things. But I'm not sure as to the wisdom of it. I defer to anybody but me. And then last one, I think most important and we haven't talked about it yet surprisingly, I honestly thought this was going to be Greg's first pitch first pick and that is a Goby dogs. I don't know if you're aware of it says my business that I'm going to start in the Chicago initially although I think now we can do an international expansion potentially and so you know, they have the carts right. This a hot dogs. We didn't Orleans, they were called Lucky dogs there, which maybe it's ironic. Or maybe you hope to get lucky. But I mean, a Goby has hot dog shape, right. This has to be this has to be an effective technique for minimizing go least that's my thought. So Goby dogs? No, no. The Universal reaction so far, you're about the fourth person to say no. So I think that this is a Yeah, I think this is

Greg Hitzroth 40:12
a Can you eat before? You know, like, there's like health issues with like,

Stuart Carlton 40:16
okay, so a lot of people are making this point. And so I hear what you're saying. But, you know, going back actually to Lucky dogs and New Orleans. And so there's a book about somebody who sold those hotdogs, called Confederacy of Dunces, which is a wonderful sort of book that you may have read, but the quote at the beginning, let me let me find it. So I get it just right. When a true genius appears, this is Jonathan Jonathan Swift, when a true genius appears, you can know Him by this sign that all the dances are in a confederacy against him. And I'm not saying that you're done since of course, you're not I would not invite you on if he's going about the Great Lakes. But what I am saying is that the true genius of this idea just isn't apparent to you yet. And that's fine. That's fine. But one day, one day will be

Bonnie Willison 41:14
So Sydney, how do you think everyone did? Were there any important players that you think were overlooked? I'm

Sydney Widell 41:21
personally always down to talk about bio control. And I noticed that that was missing. What's bio control? bio control is when you use another species to limit the spread of another aquatic invader. One notable example is like purple loosestrife and the cello beetle.

Bonnie Willison 41:39
Yeah, for sure. When Stuart was talking about Gobi dogs, I realized he was talking about like a food like similar to a hot dog but I thought that they could have mentioned conservation dogs. Conservation dogs are dogs that are trained to sniff out invasive species and so you can use dogs to identify spread and see when you might have a new population groups like the Midwest conservation dogs are doing really important work.

Sydney Widell 42:08
Yeah, great point, Bonnie. One that I was glad to see know and bring up was large scale herbicide treatments. I think it's time we leave this pic in the past and look for more sustainable ways to manage EIS problems.

Bonnie Willison 42:21
One pic that I might have chose because I just think it is super fascinating is carp hunting. This is where companies take people out on like the Illinois River where there are a lot of silver and bighead carp, and they take you out and you can both fish for flying carp. Sydney, you got to do this right?

Megan Gunn 42:42
Yeah, I

Sydney Widell 42:43
did get to go kart punting. And I talk way more about that in episode 12 of introduced I think we have a lot of good picks on the table and I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens next, Stuart back to

Stuart Carlton 42:54
you well, so that's gonna wrap it up for our draft. And this is really interesting. I actually learned a lot already and I have a lot of research to do. So if I were you right now listener, I would go down on your phone and look at the show notes there are going to teach me about the right leg SATCOM slash. I think I said 29 slash 29. To check it out. But that's actually not the reason why we had all of these panelists on teach me about the Great Lakes. The reason we have these panels on the teaching about their latest ask our two questions, primarily of our new panelists, but anybody wants to chime in can and those two questions are this. The first one is Olivier. If you could have a great donut for breakfast or a great sandwich for lunch, which would you have?

Olivier Morrisette 44:00
I have to go to sandwich. Yeah, I'm a sausage sandwich lover.

Stuart Carlton 44:05
Sandwich lover. So when I'm in Quebec City, visiting you and Goby dog, obviously sandwich, but but so we'll have one of those. And then the next day, we will go out to lunch. And where will we go get a sandwich?

Olivier Morrisette 44:16
There's some places call lab water ping. So it's in English with Google translate to the breadbox. And there is those really fresh bread with a lot of diversity of great sandwiches, suggesting the smoke Solomon one but yeah, you have the there's a really wide variety of amazing sandwich. And

Stuart Carlton 44:38
there we go. Don and Don, I will be there. Tim Campbell, new guests. You sort of addressed this a couple of weeks ago when you were on but I think we need to go into more detail. So Tim, great sandwich great donut, where are you leaving?

Tim Campbell 44:50
I'm a great sandwich person. I mean, I think above all, I'm an Accommodator. So when we talk about donuts last time, we'll talk about donuts but I think I'm personally a sandwich person and I'll give you I think two and a half options to if you're in Madison, I go to Bonzo, which is Mediterranean. They do really good falafel there's a food cart, usually on the square, but they also have brick and mortar location right next to the airport. So if you fly in, it's one of the first places you can stop at. So I would do that. And if you're in Madison, and then I have a lot of really good memories of meeting coworkers along Lake Winnebago, there's a lot of separate clubs and bars, that you can just grab a sandwich, look over the lake. Talk about whatever. So I have a lot of good memories of doing that. So I'll recommend anywhere on Lake Winnebago, but I've been to Waverly Beach, which is at the northern end of the lake, the most. And any of the sandwiches are fine.

Stuart Carlton 45:44
Any of the sandwiches are fine. It's more it's more location based. Yes. Recommendation. That's fine. Guy last week recommended whatever, as long as there was a beer essentially. Yeah, that's solid point. Solid point. Great Southern Olivia, you are the Division Chief aquatic invasive species Division Chief for the Quebec Ministry of Forestry, Wildlife and Parks. What is it that like makes you good at your job? Or what are characteristics that are really important in your type of job?

Olivier Morrisette 46:09
I think flexibility or being able to touch a lot of different things, we are research related, but also we are doing outreach monitoring. So yeah, you one day you are caring about a bone that is broken. And the next day, we are talking about a couple of citizen that that are worried about their leg. So you have to be ready to all different kinds of time situations.

Stuart Carlton 46:33
Wonderful. And Tim, you are the aquatic invasive species, specialists at Wisconsin, Sigmund, what makes you go to your job.

Tim Campbell 46:41
So I think I'm gonna engage in a little bit of hyperbole here. And I like to joke that I don't know anything. And I'm not good at anything. Which I'm sure is not the case. I think I'm good at a few things. But I think by I think by like believing that it really helps me engage experts that might or that I can learn from them to help you do all these things, you know, the best way possible and then by not knowing anything.

Stuart Carlton 47:11
mind like a blank slate. That's good. That's important. No, I think you're right right is approaching everything. Actually what I think it is is approaching things with like a childlike, childlike wonder. And beginner's mind, I think is really good. Yeah.

Tim Campbell 47:23
Is there I don't know anything. And I don't know anything to when I'm talking to stakeholders, like I don't know what their problems are. And so you've just by I think it gets me in a much more like listening mindset. So that way I can actually understand what what point they're coming from.

Stuart Carlton 47:40
Wonderful. Well, that's gonna wrap it up for this episode, teach me about the Great Lakes. Greg hits Roth outreach specialist with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant and the Illinois natural history survey. Where can people go to find out more about your work?

Greg Hitzroth 47:52
Well, you can find me on the Sea Grant website Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant website, but also our multiple websites. We have lots of work online. So we have transport zero.org We have take aim.org, which is a organism and trade website, and we also have the invasive crayfish collaborative, invasive crayfish.com. I'm sorry, invasive crayfish stop ordered

Stuart Carlton 48:19
base of crayfish.org Done and done. Who was next time I listed as Tim Campbell, aquatic invasive species specialist, Wisconsin Sea Grant where can people go to find out more about your work?

Tim Campbell 48:30
So you can go to sea grant wisc.edu To learn more about what we're doing on aquatic invasive species and anything else that we're doing and you can get me on Twitter at T underscore can't be?

Stuart Carlton 48:42
T can be fantastic. Megan Gunn aquatic education associated with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant where can people find out more about what you're doing?

Megan Gunn 48:51
You can find out what I'm doing on Twitter at underscore t f f p and on Instagram at the familiar faces project.

Stuart Carlton 48:58
Excellent. Long list today, Olivier Morissette A is Division Chief. Chief excuse me with the Quebec Ministry of Forestry wildlife parks, where can people find out more about what you're doing?

Olivier Morrisette 49:10
Yeah, people can reach me on Twitter at Oak Morissette on Twitter so be aware there is a lot of fish back fish roaring and auto lip facts so you don't know if what's another lip just Demond with her and you you will know

Stuart Carlton 49:28
I love a good odorless fact. I did not know oh, this will be a whole nother episode sometime. I would love to talk about odorless with you and how completely incompetent I am at slicing them. Great Carolyn Foley. What about you?

Carolyn Foley 49:41
Well, you can find out more about Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. We are on Twitter, Facebook. Instagram, Youtube i l i n sta gi n T dot work or something? Not taught you always makes me do Listen,

Stuart Carlton 50:01
because if I don't make you do it, I ask where people can find out what your work is like, that's such a big ask. Okay? Anyway, it's all i Li and Sea Grant and all those places, and you can go to IIC grant.org and find it. I happen to know even though actually I screwed up more than Carolyn does to be fair to be file, and. And so. But yeah, go to all that and find all that good work. Oh, Carolyn, and then the other thing, that's what it is we're supposed to tell him about. We got two things, three things, a handful of things. One, you should email us we have an email, it's teach me about the great lakes@gmail.com Send us an email, work appropriate email, and maybe we'll read it on the air, give us feedback, whatever. And then the other thing is, thanks to our good friends at introduced. We were inspired to create a hotline. And so we need you to call our hotline I want you to right now you're on your phone listening to a podcast, hit pause while running up, hit pause in a minute. And dial this number. Area code 765496. I SG that's for Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. That's 4964474. And Colin tells your great like story. We're really interested in hearing from you. And maybe we'll play it on the air. So give us a call there. Send us an email, I haven't asked you to rate and review the show for a while do that to do all of these things. That's all I have. It's a free show. You can do those three things for us and we appreciate you doing it. And then between now and then we'll see you on the first Monday of every month and the third Monday of most months or as Carolyn puts it every month. And until then. Keep greatin' those lakes!